H. .1. H. BLOW.]

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establishment for working such railway, the Governor may from time to time order the proprietors of such railway to postpone such opening or discontinue such working." 159. Have } 7 ou any objection to those words being struck out? —I think the Bill is right as it is. I say that clause 2 is a re-enactment of the existing law, but I prefer the way in which it is arranged in the Bill. 160. Hon. Mr. B. McKenzie] You were asked by Mr. Davey if the Department had received any complaints about the control and management of the trams by the Tramway Board in Christchurch ?—Yes. 161. Have you got any records of that kind?—l understood Mr. Davey's question to refer to the working of the tramway, and I replied that I was not aware of any complaint being made; but if he referred to the construction of the traimvay, then a number of complaints have been made. 162. Is it not a fact that in some cases in Christchurch or the suburbs the Christchurch Board are laying down trams in streets where there is not sufficient room for a trap to stand or pass between the kerbing and the cars?— They are only laying down trams on streets that the Public Works Department has approved. 163. But in regard to sidings? —You mean there is not sufficient room between the tram and kerbing for a trap to pass? 164. Not sufficient room for a trap to pass or stand either? —That refers to all cities where there are sidings. 165. Do you think that should be allowed?— The only way to prevent it would be to prohibit the construction of tramwaVys in narrow streets. 166. Or widen the streets?— That has been done in some cases. We did that in Dunedin, and got into trouble. Afterwards, however, they acknowledged the wisdom of our decision very handsomely. 167. Where will the vehicular traffic go?—lt will have to go on the opposite side of the street. That applies to the Opera House in Manners Street, and there are other instances. I wish to correct that: it is not so in Manners Street, but there are instances in Wellington where the lines have been laid sufficiently near the kerb to prevent vehicles going in between. 168. You know 7 the road leading out to the Riccarton Racecourse? —Yes, that is a very wide road. 169. In places; but supposing you had a tram-line laid down there without sufficient space between the kerb and the tram-cars, where would the traffic go on race days? —It would necessarily have to go on the other side of the street. 170. Then they would be travelling on the wrong side, and would got themselves into trouble there again?—l do not see that there is any alternative. 171. You know 7 the rule of the road for vehicles, and on a busy day, going on the wrong side, you are likely to have a serious accident ?—But xvhen a tram-car is going along, claiming the right of the, road, the other traffic must give way. 172. Do you think the Crown ought to prevent the laying of tram-lines-where there is not sufficient space between the tram-line and the kerb?—l think it is advisable to prevent the construction of tranways in streets that are very narrow, and where there is not, sufficient room. 173. In dealing with engineers' certificates Mr. Luke said the Corporations could find out whether a man was qualified or not as well as the Government. Is it not a fact that engineers must prove previous experience and also that their certificates are in three grades?—l am not aware of the regulations relating to the issue of engineers' certificates. 174. Do you think it is a wise thing to put men in the position of having no appeal from their employers' decision in a case where a Corporation runs the trams?-—The tendency of the present-day legislation is certainly to grant appeals. We have done it in the case of the Government Railways. 175. I mean, take the City of Wellington, where they have an Appeal Board for the men, and the members of the Board are the members of the City Council, who are at the same time their employers ?—You can hardly call that an Appeal Board at all. 176. It is not a fair and impartial appeal? —Not at all —that is not a fair appeal at all. 177. Mr. Luke] Is there any place in Wellington where the siding or line is thrown, over near the kerb, where traffic could not pass between it and the kerb? —I cannot bring a place to my mind at the present moment, but there are plenty of street-corners in that position. 178. But are you aware there is a regulation, so far as the tramways here are concerned, that the motormen must negotiate the corners at two miles per hour? —I do not think, two miles. 179. That is in the regulations for sharp corners? —Well, I have not seen the regulation. 180. That has been the means of safeguarding absolutely the wheel traffic. Following up wdiat the Minister said, is not that another reason why the municipalities should hold the privileges which they have, because the danger may be that, the Government, if they are the controlling authority, will call upon the local authority to spend a considerable amount of money in widening the corners to give effect to what the Government desire, whereas the local authority and the people living within that area may be satisfied with the present condition?—An answer is difficult. I think we require first to see whether the Government would take up that position. I scarcely think they would. 181. Mr. Myers] With regard to the question raised by Mr. O'Shea, you pointed to section 215, which you say gives power to the Government or some officer of the Government, or the Governor in Council, to order alterations and repairs in order to meet the requirements of the traffic. Would you mind pointing out to me where you say the existing law is the same as those words which I have referred to?—I say that clause 2 of the Bill is practically a re-enactment of