A. ROSSEB.J

33

I.—B

JS6. Do you recollect some of those men making a statement to the effect that there were a number of runaways on the Auckland system that were never reported to the public at all?-Yes 56. As secretary of the union they would be reported to you also?— Yes, I would know They practically tell me everything that happens. } 57. Do you keep any record of that?— No. 58. Mr Luke.] You have gone through the Rill? Yes, this evening only -..). I think you said that in your opinion, so long as you had the brakes you were not so t,,c B,Uf Ni " we n:,ui the Bm ''"' , rather than ™» d ™ - 60. You think the principal object of the Bill would be to give you the brakes?-No W " tI,C bFakeS <hC " m " ;lM Part " f ° laUBe? N °' *-c ar, other 62. Y r ou consider the brakes an important part?— Yes. 63. So far as the licensing is concerned, do you think the drivers should be licensed ?-Oh yes ! t' ill P rOTI ,« IeB for th * cars being licensed; but do you not think the licensing of the men should be under the authority of the City Council ?-No; under the Government, the same as engine-drivers, who are at present under the Inspection of Machinery Act 65. If the Auckland muncipality owned the undertaking, would you then have the same feeling towards the tramway system that you have at the present time?—l might tell you that I fought tooth and nail against this company having the tramways handed over to it, and my opinion is the same now—that all tramways should be owned by the municipality. 66. But if the municipality in Auckland owned the tramway system, similar to Wellington '.'"AT wn- 161I 61 ' 6 W ° Ul , d b6 any necessit y for th ™ Bill, as you appreciate local government ?-' Hut the Wellington men have grievances under the Council. 67 But from the knowledge you have of the tramway undertaking, and from your views on the matter, if it was owned by the Corporation and controlled by them, would you still think there would be the necessity for this Bill?— Yes, I think so. You would get votes for two years but we have no votes to contend with. 68. Are you aware that most of the accidents have happened not on the steep grades but on Hie minimum grades or level?—No, lam not aware of that. 69. Are you of opinion that most of the fatal accidents happen on the steep grades? It has been said that the fatal accidents, or most of them, have not occurred on the steep grades?— Graydon s was on a steep grade. 70. What, grade was that on where a serious accident happened on New Year's Eve?— That was at Kmgsland, with a decker. That is a fairly steep grade. 71. Not the steepest grade?— No. The actual accident, happened on the level—it took charge then. b 72. I suppose you have had no experience of brakes?— No. I have only had an experience of three years and nine months as secretary of the union. _ 73. And from the knowledge you have acquired as secretary of the union, do you think the desire would be m favour of the magnetic brake or the air brake?—ln favour of the air brake l>ecause it could be installed in quicker time, and the air brake will hold a car where the magnetic brake will not. 74. What is the reason of that?— Only from what I gather from the motormen. They had a (est at Miller's Point, Sydney, in which the air brake was left on the car for hours, and it had not weakened. 75. Would it not be the same with the electric magnetic brake? —No. _ 76. Why?— Because I am informed by the Wellington men that the magnetic is a stop brake —it does not hold the car on a declivity. 77. You spoke of a test that was made. How far did the car travel after the air brake was put on?—I think it went the length of a pole and a half, but I would not be sure because T did not measure it. Tt was on the worst rail you could get in the service—a greasy rail. 78. Was the car loaded?— Yes, the car was loaded with ballasting rather more than a load of people would be. 79. Would it be 50 per cent, more loaded ?—Yes. 80. Would you think it was possible on a grade of 1 in 12 that a car loaded with 12J tons plus the weight of the car—that when the magnetic brake was applied it only went 50 ft. ?—Yes, I would believe that. I have been surprised to see the quick stops here. 81. Your opinion is that the magnetic brakes in Wellington could not be surpassed?—No, I would not give that opinion : that is a big thing to say. 82. You still think, from your knowledge of the air brake and what you have seen in Auckland, where a car went a pole and a half, that that is a superior brake to the brake in Wellington which pulled up the car loaded with one and a half times its weight as I have mentioned?—l think you are putting a question to me that T should not be called upon to answer. 83. But you have made an assertion, and T am here to get your evidence. Tf a poll was taken amongst the motormen in Auckland, would the majority of them vote in favour of the air brake? - They are unanimous in Auckland in favour of the air brake 84. That is because of their training there?— But we have some Sydney men there. 85. And if you had some Christchurch men it would be the same?— Yes. 86. And also Wellington men?—We have some Wellington men there, and they are of that opinion too, because the air brake would hold a car on a rise. 87. Mr. Poole.] Do you think the company is prepared to meet you in connection with the air brake if the Public Works Department approve of same?— Yes, I believe they would. s—l. 8.