I.—B.

8

G. S. EICHABDSON.

89. What would be the position of the tramway undertaking if the Minister should insist upon everybody in a car having a seat —what would be the position of the Wellington tramways from a financial point of view? —I think we should have to increase our fares. 90. Have you any idea by how much? —Probably from 30 to 50 per cent. 91. And you think the people of Wellington would rather put up with the disability created during rush hours and have cheaper fares instead of higher fares and more comfort?—l think they would. I would also point out this: that at rush times everybody wants to get on the first car, and if we had fifty more oars running in Wellington at rush hours than we have at present, under the same conditions that they are running under now that is, allowing overcrowding we should still, with the double number of cars running-, get overcrowded cars, because the people would take the first car that came along. 92. You say the maximum grade is 1 in twelve?— Yes. 93. Do you know Dundee at all? -No. 94. Would you believe that oik- portion of the tramway there, on a similar system to that of Wellington, is run on lin 9?— l think that is the same as at Parnell llise, in Auckland. 95. As an engineer you can believe that in Frisco and Dundee they are working similar systems on a grade of 1 in 9?— Yes, I believe they do. 96. And you think it is not contrary to the practice of electrical traction to have a tramway undertaking similar to Wellington running on a grade of 1 in 9?— Yes, it is not contrary. 97. Mr. G. M. Thomson.] In the case of the Brooklyn cars, supposing the cars were loaded up to carry as many people as they could carry, would it add to the danger of the running?—l do not think there would be any danger in loading up the Brooklyn cars, with the exception of the box cars. I do not believe in loading up the box cars, because the passengers can get from the inside on to the conductor's platform, and if the motorman's door was not fastened they might get on to the motorman's platform. 98. But I mean in regard to the question of weight. Supposing the cars were loaded up with as many passengers as they could carry, would it add to the danger?—l do not think so. I might say that in one of our tests for the Public Works officers we ran one of those big top-deck cars— the largest car we have in Wellington—which was loaded up with about T\ tons weight, which was more than equivalent to a full load of passengers. The car would seat 103 people, and it was loaded with pig iron and wheels equal to a load and a sixth. The oar was run down Brooklyn at a speed of twelve miles an hour, and I think it was stopped in about .'i4 ft. by the magnetic brake. 99. Mr. Hogan.] In answer to Mr. Thomson's question you said the passengers are quite sepa rate from the motorman; but are there not certain cars running here, for instance, upon which passengers can surround the motorman unless he or the conductor insists on their going inside?— Yes, those would be the combination cars, but they do not run on the Brooklyn line. 100. In answer to Mr. Luke, you said that you considered Wellington sufficiently safeguarded at present, but since that is due to a good Council and good officers there is no guarantee that other places will be equally safe, and do you not think proper supervision should be exercised by some higher authority?—lt is to the interests of the municipal bodies themselves that everything should be in the best order and kept up. If any accident happens it is the municipal body that has to pay out. 101. But paying out will not bring life back. It is not a matter of paying out at all —it is a matter of prevention ; and if the local bodies or municipal councils are not doing their duty properly—and I think you must in your experience of life recognise that some do their duty in one way and some in another —and if they are not doing their duty properly do you not think that some higher authority ought to keep them up to the mark? —Well, sir, my opinion about it is that if you take away the powers from the municipalities it is more than likely that you will not get them to look after their duties as well as if you gave them full powers. 102. And if you leave them their powers, do you not think some one ought to see that they exercise their powers properly? —No. I think the municipal bodies should have full control of everything within their boundaries. 103. Whether they conduct such an important undertaking properly or not?—l think they are quite as likely to conduct it properly as any other people or as the Government would. It stands to reason they should be. 104. Mr. Glover.] With regard to strait-hangers, you know that in Auckland provision has been made for quite a number of strap-hangers to travel on the cars, and in your opinion does that interfere with the service up there?—No, Ido not see that it should. In which way? 105. In the overcrowding of the cars. You are aware that on perhaps sixty Auckland cars they have single platforms, and the passengers are absolutely in touch with the motorman all the time. Do you think the efficiency of the motorman is impaired by reason of the crowded car?— The efficiency of the motorman would be impaired if the passengers had any means of access to the motorman. 106. Mr. Brown.] You said that in Auckland the state of the brakes was not as efficient as that in Wellington. Could the Auckland company fit the same brakes to their cars as yon have in Wellington?—l think they could. They have not fitted them, but I believe they could. 107. And vet they have waited sixteen months, and they say they cannot get a brake that they are satisfied with. Here in Wellington you have a brake which works all right, and vet the Auckland people cannot find one which they say will work all right. That is the position, is it not ?—Yes. They express themselves as not being satisfied with the magnetic brake as being the best brake. 108.. And yet you are perfectly satisfied?—! am satisfied that it is one of the best if not (lie best brake,