I. -9a.

[W. T. YOUNG.

addition to that, it would cause considerable inconvenience and expense, as the union would be required to collect from the non-unionist the amount of subscription and keep a separate set of books showing their payments; and besides that, it has been stated by the Minister that all such moneys collected must be placed to an unemployed and sick benefit fund for the benefit of those who subscribe. Labour wants nothing of this description. We desire out-and-out preference from the Legislature or nothing, and until Parliament is sufficiently democratic to give us that we are willing to leave the issue of preference to the Court to deal with. We are strongly opposed to the whole of this clause, as we consider it places on one side a fundamental issue in the labour movement, and if given effect to would result in doing organized labour a gross injury, and we therefore ask that it be struck right out of the Bill. Clause 48: After the word " award," in the 49th line, we suggest that all the words be struck out. If that is done it will then be incumbent to have a complete copy of the award posted up, whereas under the clause at present it is only required that there shall be posted up a copy of the award in respect to the lowest prices or rates of payment only. With the suggested amendment we are in accord with the clause. Clause 51: This provides that where a union is a branch of or affiliated to any society of which the central head is outside the colony, it shall retain in New Zealand at least three-fourths of its assets. We are strongly opposed to this clause on the ground that it places a considerable restriction on the union in respect to the application of its funds, besides being contrary to the trend of legislation in Britain since the Taff Vale decision. We learn on good authority that this clause has been put in the Bill at the request of an officer of one union only—namely, the Marine Engineers, which body cannot be regarded as a legitimate body of workers ; and, as it has not been asked for by the remainder of the unions, but on the contrary, strongly opposed, we ask that it be struck out of the Bill, or, as a compromise, the option given the union to retain its assets in the colony if it so desires. Clause 52 : This purports to prohibit unions from registering under " The Trade Union Act, 1878." Clearly the intention of this is to prohibit the duplication of unions, but as the clause in the Bill stands it would entirely prohibit any union from registering under the Trade Union Act, and in order to overcome that we would suggest that the following clause be inserted in lieu of the one in the Bill: viz., " The Registrar of Trade Unions shall refuse to register a union under the Trade Union Act in any case where he is of opinion that in the same locality or industrial district, and connected with the same industry, there exists an industrial union to which the members of such applicant union might conveniently belong." This suggested clause is following up the principle contained in section 11 of " The Conciliation and Arbitration Act, 1905," and we strongly urge its adoption upon the Committee. Clause 53: To all practical intents and purposes this is a dictation to the unions as to whom they shall have for their officers, seeing that it provides that no person shall be eligible to hold the position of an officer, or a seat on the management committee -of any union, who has not been employed in, or is not employed in, the trade the union represents. We are strongly opposed to this becoming law, as it not only deprives the unions, especially the small ones, of certain liberties they now enjoy, but imposes on them considerable hardship. According to parliamentary return of this year there are forty-two unions in the City of Wellington proper, and out of that number no less than thirteen would be deprived of the services of their secretaries, to say nothing of the other officers and members of the committees, if this clause were made law. Having that in view, we consider, or estimate, that some forty per cent, of the unions in the colony would be deprived of their principal officer. It should be borne in mind that one of flic cardinal features of the principle of conciliation and arbitration was to encourage the formation of unions, and we are satisfied that this provision would have the contrary effect, seeing that it is almost beyond possibility for a number of men desirous of forming a union to get one or several of their number to undertake the duties devolving upon an officer, owing to the fact of such undertaking bringing them into direct conflict with the men upon whom they are dependent for their bread and butter. Our experience is that the large majority of those unions who have as their officers men dependent upon the emplo} r er for the means of subsistence appeal to men independent of the employer to represent them at conferences and to conduct their cases before the Boards and the Court, and if that is so in those cases, does it no indicate that the unions should be given a free hand in the selection of their officers? That is all I have to say in connection with the Bill, Mr. Chairman.

Friday, 20th September, 1907. James Thorn examined. (No. 5.) 1. The Chairman.] What are you?— President of the Canterbury Trades and Labour Council. 2. Living in Christchurch ?—Yes. 3. Have you seen this Bill, known as the Industrial Conciliation and Arbitration Act Amendment Bill?— Yes. 4. Whom do you represent here?— The Canterbury Trades and Labour Council. 5. Any other body ?—No. Not at this meeting, anyhow. 6. May I ask if this Bill has been submitted to your Council?— Yes, 7. Have you been appointed to give evidence in regard to it?— Yes. 8. Will you tell us what the opinions of your Council are? —I may say that I do not intend to make any extended statement in regard to the attitude my Council takes up in connection with the Bill. Mr. Westbrooke and Mr. Young, in giving evidence, have practically used all the arguments that appealed to us when the Bill was considered by our executive. The Bills Committee of the Canterbury Trades and Labour Council, which has power to act on behalf of the Council without consulting the Council, considered the Bill of such importance that it called in the executive

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