S.WILLIAMS.]

19

G.— s.

263. Now, at that school technical education to a certain extent has been introduced —that is to say, the girls are taught general household duties, cooking, and washing, and ironing, and all that sort of thing?— Yes. 264. Have you ever had any suggestions from the Education Department with regard to Hukarere? —I think they get on very satisfactorily with Miss Williams. I may say we have made it our study from the very commencement of these schools to try and work harmoniously with the Department. 265. Both schools have been inspected annually? —Yes; and the Inspector comes twice a year. 266. Have the reports of the Inspectors been, on the whole, satisfactory? —Perfectly. The first time Mr. Pope came he examined the ten Government scholars, and I said, " Surely you are not going to draw a distinction between the Government scholars and the others; you are not going to divide our school?" He replied, " Well, we have no authority to come in for any other purpose." I said, "If that is so I shall have to send an application to the Department to request you to examine the whole of them." He replied, "If that is the way you look at it nothing will give me greater pleasure than to do so." And it has been so ever since. Mr. Bird: I would like to state that that point marks the entry of the Education Department into the Te xlute and Hukarere Schools. The Department did so at the request of the Archdeacon. 267. The Chairman.] When did the Government scholars first come to the schools?—l cannot remember the date, but I know it was the first time Mr. Pope came there to examine them. 268. The examination of the whole school by the Inspector was done at the request of yourself and the authorities?— Yes. 269. They have not forced themselves upon you, but have come at your request to examine the whole school? —Yes, and it has been of great advantage to the school. I was asked by the late Royal Commission about the number of English boys at the school. I had rather too large a number of purely English boys on that occasion. I have got a list here of the purely English boys who have been admitted at different times [Exhibit No. 22]. There is a number of half-castes as well. 270. According to your lease the area of the three lots included in the lease is 6,863 acres?— It is as nearly as possible 7,000 acres. I think that terrier I gave you was very carefully drawn up by Mr. Cotterill. 271. I am taking the actual figures from your lease? —They might be anything. 272. I suppose, after farming the land all these years, you know the acreage?— Yes, it is about 7,000 acres. 273. How did the exchange between you and the trustees come about?—lt was quite clear to me that the College ought to have that piece of ground to provide a frontage to the trust estate. I was talking the matter over one day with my nephew, and I told him I was bound to give it to the College. It is the key to the 1,745-acre block. There is no chance otherwise of having a homestead for that block. There is a precipitous hill on it. 274. Do you say it was in the interests of the trust that that exchange should be effected?— Decidedly. 275. And had you the interests of the trust at heart when you made that exchange?— Certainly ; I saw it was for the benefit of the trust. I saw they would have a homestead then close to the railway-line and communication with the outer world, otherwise they would have nothing but a steep precipice on which to put a homestead. I was going to give the land to them, but my nephew said, " There are a few straggling pieces belonging to the College property, and they would be worth a great deal more in our property than if left straggling along the road as they do." I said there would be no difficulty about it, and that we could arrange an exchange in that way. But the whole thing was proposed for the benefit of the trust. 276. Do you own or lease any lands in the immediate vicinity of the trust property?— Yes; the land reclaimed from the swamp. That work was a little piece of clerical engineering. The engineers told me it could never be done, and I said, " I think it can be done." I said it would not only be of advantage to the school but to the whole district that it should be done. There were other settlers on the opposite side of the lake anxious to get it done, and we formed ourselves into a River Board, and, to the astonishment of the engineers as well as others, we did it. 277. Was the exchange with Mr. Stokes a fair exchange? —Yes, quite fair. It was to secure a good fencing-line. Bishop Abraham, one of the trustees, was with me when we arranged it. 278. Now, in your own exchange, were the trustees fortified by any outside opinion as to the value of the property they were getting and the value of the property they were giving?—l was looked upon as foolish for giving my piece of land to them. 279. But did the trustees take the opinion of an outside valuer?—-I understood they consulted Mr. Baker. In joking, he said I would have to pay more rent for the estate, as I was giving a better bit of land. I can say conscientiously I gave a better bit of land than I took, but it was done entirely in the interests of the College. 280. I think I referred to the letting of the estate by public tender or public auction: do you think if that estate had been submitted to auction or to tender on the terms of your lease that the trustees would have got a better rent for it?— No. I would be rather inclined to follow the example of the Government, who, I believe, never go to auction. I would like to mention that my rents, you will observe, crept up gradually every seven years upon my own money invested in the property. Now, as a matter of business, I would never dream of taking a place for seven years that required a lot of money spent on it. However, as the school got the benefit I did not mind. But in an ordinary way I certainly would not take a lease for seven years and spend money on the place to improve the property, and then pay for the enhanced value due to my own improvements. The Government have some very valuable educational reserves in Dannevirke. They let these reserves on a twenty-one years' lease at Is. per acre, and the tenant is refunded or can claim all he has expended on improvements in a renewal of the lease. Now, that is widely different from