1.—9.

16

[W. H. LAVELLE.

materially to his disadvantage, for this reason, that many employers used to give their men a yearly holiday of seven or fourteen days and pay them during illness ; but the moment the Act came into force these privileges were withdrawn and the employers said that if their men wanted to be paid for overtime they could have it. We therefore want an annual holiday for six working-days, and to have the provision for the payment of overtime taken away. Moreover, although it is intended to give us a benefit, I know that many employers get round the clause in different ways. The bulk of the assistants are drawn from warehouse staffs, and it has always been the custom when a hand is engaged for the employer to arrange for little commissions and premiums. 181. Mr. Hardy.] "Spiffs"?— Yes. These premiums have been reduced very much, because the firm can decide how much shall be paid in premiums, so that while the man may have had the average wage and his overtime he has lost all these privileges. So we want the clause for a week's annual holiday instead of the one for the payment of overtime. We think the one can be worked better than the other. 182. Mr. Fisher.] What do you mean by "premiums"),?— Supposing you are selling an article and find that it is hanging fire, you put a premium of Id., 2d., or 3d. on it and say to your assistant, " That will be paid to you," and it is added to the wages. The employer can give these premiums or not, as he pleases. 183. Mr. Sidey (to Mr. Hamilton).] Clause 2 on your circular is of course the clause that is subject to clause 3of the Act. At present Saturday is not the closing-day, and the wish of your association is that Friday should be the late night instead of Saturday ? —There is one day fixed for the statutory half-holiday, either Wednesday or Saturday. At present it is Wednesday, as fixed by the City Council in conference with the other local bodies. 184. So that it would be Wednesday, after 1 o'clock ?—Yes, at present. 185. And 9 o'clock on Saturday ?—Yes. We want the public to shop late on Fridays instead of Saturdays. 186. No provision is made for late hours on New Year's eve and Christmas eve, as provided for in clause 3 of the Act ?—That has been put to the shop-assistants and they are perfectly willing to work on those two occasions until 11 o'clock. That has been put to them on several occasions. They admit the necessity of it on those two special days. 187. You have not expressed any opinion as regards the closing-hours of shops ? —I will if you like, but that is hardly our case. We shop-assistants are looking after ourselves. 188. You do not reckon it will affect you how long the shops keep open % A man may keep his shop-assistant beyond a certain hour ?—Yes, that is why we want " shop-assistant" to be clearly defined. We do not want a man to be called a " manager "or " partner." If he is a'small shopkeeper we do not mind what time he likes to stop. Of course he would ruin his health by long hours. 189. You do not think it would act prejudicially to the assistants to allow a shopkeeper to remain open as long as he likes ?—Not if he is the real owner. 190. Would you prevent two persons entering into partnership to do business ? —I would have one of them defined as the " occupier " —the head of the firm. The whole thing can be evaded if there are two occupiers. They can open the shop one after the other, and then they would compete with the small man. 191. You say that if two men are partners only one shall be allowed to keep open ?—Yes, only one should be the occupier under the Act. 192. With regard to clause 7 of your circular, would you have any objection to Empire Day being substituted for the Prince of Wales's Birthday ? —I think myself it would be better —it would be a more popular day. 193. In that case the Prince of Wales's Birthday would not be celebrated at all ?—Yes, " Empire Day " could be substituted ; but let us have it fixed as a statutory holiday, not decided by the City Council or any other body. 194. You have submitted a list of shopkeepers who have expressed a desire for 6-o'clock closing ? —Yes. 195. Are there a number of those shopkeepers now remaining open, or who did so before the Act was enforced ?—Yes, but not a very large number. A proportion of them kept open because the others did. I might say to some of them," Why do you not set the example," and they would reply " I keep open because So-and-so does." 196. (To Mr. Izard.) With regard to the statutory half-holiday, which you consider should be left to the four large cities to decide : how would you define the boundaries ? —I only speak for Wellington : I would take the four electorates of the city, cutting out the country. You might have to step over a boundary where population comes in, but I think by the manner in which the Commissioners have fixed the city-boundaries the country would not be touched at all. 197. Do you not think it would be unfair to the shopkeepers if you allowed those five or six miles out to keep open on Saturday afternoons ? —I think people come into the cities to shop because there are better shops there, and I do not think they would go into the country five or six miles to shop. 198. If the shops in the small towns closed, the city shops would not be likely to lose their trade, but if they were kept open people might go into the country ? —I do not think that would be so in the four cities—they are so clearly divided. 199. There are several small places near Dunedin ? —That may be so, but certainly not near Auckland, Wellington, and Christohurch. If I saw the plans of the electorates I could easily show you. We do not want to be unfair to any one. 200. (To Mr. Lavelle.) In relation to overtime : do you think it would be important to make it optional with the assistant to take a yearly holiday or overtime as allowed by the Act ? —lt is an absolute farce now according to the Act. He works his overtime but does not get any. more money, and he is debarred from all the privileges he got before.