35

G.—5.

BISHOP NELIGAN.j

to do more. They are taught domestic economy. Mr. Hogben is very particular that cooking should be an ordinary'"class subject. They are taught sewing and make everything. There are about forty girls there now. 14. Mr. Quick.] St. Stephen's is under Government inspection ?—Both schools are. 15. It is looked upon as advisable to keep in touch with the Government ?—The Government has a direct hold on these institutions. There are a minimum of twenty Government scholarships to the Victoria School, and a maximum of thirty to St. Stephen's. 16. What has been the tenor of the Government reports ?—They have been of a most satisfactory character in the way of approving of the general system of education, and Mr. Hogben is recommending considerable latitude in the way of the working of the syllabus. For instance, he recommends that cooking should be a class subject, backing up what we have been trying to do— i.e., to make the training wholly practical. The Government only leave the children two years in either school, which is too short a time. 17. Are the girls taught neatness in their attire, and so forth ?—Yes. 18. You give places in Victoria School to girls from these districts?— Yes. The St. Stephen's trust gives the Victoria School a grant of £50, thus fulfillng a portion of that trust, and we take into a Victoria School any one and from all parts. 19. So these reserves contribute to Victoria School ?—Not directly. 20. But a girl coming from those parts would have her education paid for by the trustees ? —The Trust Board give an annual subsidy to the Victoria School. 21. In respect to that particular girl ?—No ; in respect to the school. 22. But supposing there were no Waikato girls there, would the trustees give anything ( —The trustees of St. Stephen's trust are bound to ; they are all under the Trust Board. Victoria School was built almost entirely by voluntary subscriptions, and when it was built the trustees of St. Stephen's said, " We will give out of our trust £50 a year." 23. That is the limit ?—Yes. Where the £50 comes from, whether 10s. from Kohanga and ss. from somewhere else, I do not know. 24. Who is best able to give us information in regard to that ?—Nobody knows so much as Mr. Cochrane. 25. You say it might be advisable to amalgamate the trusts and have a school in the country ? — Not exactly ; I think the question was whether I thought small schools scattered would be a wiser plan than one big school, and I said " No." 26. But did you not say you doubted whether it would not be better if St. Stephen's were further afield ? —As a matter of my own personal opinion, had there been any possibility of that. 27. It would not be so central ?—No ; there are disadvantages. 28. Would it not be more expensive ? —One does not know that. 29. Do you find the apprentice scheme work well ?—There is no questioti about that; that portion of the work is being done excellently. We are in correspondence with the Government as to the further development of the apprentice scheme. It opens the question, what is most likely to be beneficial for the Maori race : to teach the young Maoris trades wherein they become very speedily proficient, or to teach them skilled farming ? and that is where a diversity of opinion might arise. 30. It has been alleged that it is trouble thrown away to teach them skilled farming, because if they go among their own people they will not go in for anything beyond growing enough kumaras to live on, and that sort of thing ?—I may be wrong ; but when I think of some of the Irish schools (and the Irish peasants are exceedingly like the Maoris in many ways) where they are taught farming and carpentering, &c, Ido not think it is an impossible scheme, but it is a matter of opinion. I would far rather see the Maoris on the land ; I think the danger of the glare of the gas-lamps is very real indeed to the Maori race. 31. Physical or moral danger ? —Physical; we can prevent the moral danger, and we do. 32. Unless the Maoris are seised of sanitary laws they are more likely to suffer physical deterioration in town than in the country ?—Yes ; it is a very big question. 33. The Chairman.] It seems to me, this is the case : the first complaint of the Waikato persons who say they are specially interested in the grants in the Waikato is that, under the circumstances, the land should come back to them. It may be pretty easy to answer that by saying, " No; you, or some persons looked upon as being able to deal with the land, dealt with it, and the land has gone from you and cannot come back." Some of them say, besides, this :" We have got these grants and we wish to have, and ought to have, a school on the land." It may also be easy to answer that—l do not say it is, but it may be. But is there any way of arriving at a conclusion that possibly the St. Stephen's system is not sufficiently direct, that it does not come fully home to those persons who are interested in the land ; that it would come more home to them it there were a school, not on each section of land, but somewhere in which what is going on could be seen by the Maoris ? Is it possible for us to say that would or ought to satisfy the Maoris, and that it can be done out of present revenues, or that there is any prospect of these revenues being increased by the Church or otherwise ?—I say, at present there is no possibility of that being done with the present revenue. It may be that in twenty-one or fortytwo years, when the land has been sufficiently improved to be of value, it could be done out of revenue ; but at present it is wholly impossible. Ido not think the Church people themselves would raise any money to build a school, and it is not fair to ask them. 34. Do you think there is any prospect of the more wealthy Maoris making other gifts of land in aid of such a scheme ?—I think that if gifts were made sufficient to justify the trustees in extending their educational operations, they would extend them to-morrow ; but they feel quite unable to extend their educational operations at present with the income they have.