23

G.— 5.

K. TE WHATANUI.]

clearing raupo and toe-toe and flax off the land. This land was not given to the missionaries to be theirs for ever, but to build a school there. Therefore, if there are no children attending the school, the land is to be returned to the Maoris. In regard to the suggestion that Maori children should be taught how to drill and carry arms, at the Maori conference at Kohimaramara it was announced that the Queen did not approve of the Maori people carrying arms or being taught their use ; nor did she approve of the Maoris being taken outside the borders of New Zealand for warfare. Mr. Stafford : If there is any real objection to military drill, we will eliminate that from the scheme. Witness : Our earnest wish is that the Government should put up a school on the Otaki reserve, and we want the Government to cut up. the land at Whitireia and lease it, and apply the funds to establish a school here. In regard to the suggestion that there is jealousy between the Ngatiraukawa and the Ngatikahungunu as being the reason they will not send their children to Wairarapa, I want that suggestion withdrawn ; we never made any such reference or allusion. 55. Mr. Wardell.] Do you say that children from Otaki (Ngatiraukawa) would go to Wairarapa ? —No ; they will not go to that school. But that is not because of intertribal jealousy. We want a school on the West Coast. For many years we have been in the habit of sending our children to Te Aute, and they get ill there and come home to die. Last year I sent mine, but I brought him home and he recovered. 56. Mr. Chapman.] Do you approve of the school teaching no religion ? —Religion is the salt of life ; you cannot dispense with it; it is an excellent thing. 57. This scheme says no religion is to be taught ?—Well, that is wrong ; that was the reason why we gave the land—for religious teaching. Honk Heke examined. Witness : My tribe is Ngapuhi. lam member of the House of Representatives for the Northern Maori District. lam connected both with Ngatiraukawa and Ngatitoa. lam very closely related to the nieces of Heni te Whiwhi, one of the donors of the Porirua land—that is, to her younger sister's children who married into the Ngapuhi. lam also very closely related to many members of the Ngatiraukawa Tribe. I take an interest in their welfare, not only through relationship, but through appeals made to me through leading members of Ngatiraukawa and Ngatitoa in 1896, after I became a member of the House. I think it would be as well for the Commission to understand how I came to take an interest in this matter. In 1896 I was approached by Heni, who is a daughter of one of the donors of the Porirua land and also of the, Otaki reserve. I was also approached at the same time by Raiha Puaha in 1896, and Wi Neera, a son of Wiremu Kanae, one of the donors of Porirua, and by Hohepa Tamaihenga, now dead ; also, a prominent leader of the Ngatitoa Tribe living at Porirua, and many others ; the object being to present a petition on their behalf to Parliament praying for Whitireia to be returned to them on account of the non-fulfilment in carrying-out of the trusts according to the intention of the Natives in giving the land to the Church of England. I said to them that there was a certain etiquette in these matters, " You have a representative of your own and you ought to submit your petition to your own representative." Then the appeal to relationship was mentioned, and they thought I should be a better representative to present their petition and to conduct it before the Native Affairs Committee. The result of this petition was that on its investigation by the Committee the present Chief Justice sat with the members of that Committee ; it reported recommending to the Government that, since the original trusts and the intention of the donors had not been carried out by the trustees, legislation should be brought down to enable the land and accumulated rents to be returned to the descendants of the donors. The Government refused to bring down legislation in that direction, but agreed to bring down legislation to give effect to the original intention for which the land was given to the Church, and a Bill was introduced in 1898. It did not pass into law. Since that time the same members of the Ngatiraukawa and Ngatitoa people have persistently asked me, and got me to present petition after petition, to still urge their claim for the return of the land. But in 1903 a change came about in the method of agitation —that is, instead of them asking for the land, they agitated with the trustees (Archdeacon Williams and the Bishop of Wellington) praying for the setting-up of a school to give effect to the original intention for which the Porirua and Otaki lands were given to the Church. When the members of the Ngatiraukawa and Ngatitoa Tribes began this new course of action, the Ngatiraukawa invited me to attend one of their meetings in their meetinghouse at Otaki to discuss the question. They wanted me to listen to their arguments and also make suggestions. I attended their meetings, but I never expressed any opinions in regard to any method of conduct. I simply said, "It is for you to express an opinion and to tell me what you desire. After you have given expression to that, then I can direct you as to how you should proceed in the matter." The result of this was continual meetings in Otaki and also in Wellington. Members of the Ngatiraukawa and Ngatitoa, coming down to Wellington on other matters as well as this, met and interchanged opinions. The last important gathering of members of these tribes took place in Wellington during last session. The intention was to meet Mr. Field, the European representative, and also myself. We met in a room in Parliament House, and there were many members of Ngatiraukawa there, Henu being one. Of the Ngatitoa, Raiha Puaha was present, and also Wi Neera, son of Wi Kanae, one of the donors, and one or two others. The whole trend of the conversation with Mr. Field then was to urge an inquiry on the Government into these reserves, so as to bring about the establishment of a school for the education of their children. A little prior to this I was invited by Ngatiraukawa, as was also Mr. Field, to attend a public meeting in one of the public halls in Otaki last year. The meeting was open to Europeans and Natives, the object being to hear our views in regard to what course the two races who sympathized in the action the Ngatiraukawa had begun should take. Petitions were