W. PARATA.]

21

G.—s.

1. Mr. Quick.'] The children do not till the ground now, do they ?—No, they do not do it now, we having brought the land into cultivation and improved it. Ido not know how they manage the schools just now, but during my time I know how they managed them. You must not understand me to mean that I wish to have a school, the school is too late for us now. I was not intended for these schools ; I now am an old man. Perhaps you will say, " You have plenty of children," but I have nothing to do with that. These lands have now been in European hands fifty-five years, and nothing has been done. I have finished what I have to say. 2. Mr. Wardell.] From whence do you derive your knowledge of the motives of the donors in giving the land ?—I was quite old at the time the lands were given. 3. But you were at school in 1850, and the land was given two years before that I —l was grown up when the land was given. 4. Two years before you went to school I —l had been educated a little at Waikanae before I came here. 5. When were you born ?—ln 1837. The old people did not conceal the matter. They talked about it in the presence of all the people. 6. Was Matene te Whiwhi at a meeting at Kohimaramara ?—Yes. 7. Did he take, any part in the demand for the return of the land made at that meeting ?—No. 8. Did Tamihana te Rauparaha ?—No. 9. Did any of the donors ? —No, it was only Hohepa Tamaihenga. 10. Mr. Quick.] Was Tamihana alive when you brought your action against the Bishop in 1875 ? —No. 11. Who of the donors were alive then ?—They were all dead. 12. Whom did you represent —yourself only, or any others ? —1 took proceedings on behalf of myself and a lady sitting over there for the people of Porirua. 13. The Ngatiraukawa were not mixed up with it ?—No. 14. Did the people of Porirua ask you to take those proceedings '{ —No, I did it myself because of what I had heard had been said at Kohimaramara, and also because the land had been so long lying idle without a school. 15. Nobody else moved in the matter but you ?—Myself only. The reason why I took action myself was that I knew the people at Porirua did not know how to go about getting the land back ; they had no idea they could do so. 16. Have you been asked to sign this " scheme " ? —No, because I will not consent to it. 17. Have you been attending meetings where the scheme was talked about ? —No, I have been at no meetings ; they do not tell me about those. 18. Mr. Stafford.] Do you say Matene was dead when you brought your action ? —Yes, I think SO. J9. Did he not die in 1881 ?—Perhaps it may be so ; if so, he was alive. 20. Did you not go up to Matene in reference to taking this action ?—I do not recollect that. I misunderstood the question ; I did not mean to say they were all dead in 1875. 21. Mr. Quick.] You did not approach Matene to get him to join in the action ?—1 do not recollect going to Matene. 22. Mr. Chapman.] Do you know of any meetings being held at Porirua to discuss the question of what is to be done with the land ?—I do not know. 23. Have any meetings been held at Waikanae ?—No. 24. Are there many persons at Waikanae interested in this land who belong to the tribes ?—No, not many. 25. You claim to be one ?—Yes. 26. Have you discussed it with others at all ? —No. 27. Then your objection to the scheme is that it does not carry out the intentions of the original donors ? —Yes. 28. And you want to get the land back again I—Yes.1 —Yes. 29. Do you say you are a successor to one of the donors ?—Well, it is not as though they who gave the land were the only owners of the land. 30. It was tribal land ?—Yes. 31. And you would claim tribal land to come back ? —Yes. 32. Do you know, not taking your own notion but the sentiments of the people of your tribe and other tribes, whether they would like their children to be educated without religious instruction ?—No, we do not like that; we like them to be taught religion, it is very good for them. 33. And the Maoris generally ? —Yes. 34. Mr. Quick.] Did you not give a site for a church at Waikanae ?—Yes, for a good object, not for teaching children how to fight. 35. Mr. Wardell.] Do you wish the same religion taught in the school established on the land by these grants as you gave your site for ?—I think it was the religion that civilised us. I think the teaching of religion in schools is a good thing. If you leave only secular matters to be taught in school it will do great harm to the Maori children. Those children who attend the Government schools only seem to learn how to swear and use bad language. Hent te Whiwhi (recalled) examined. 36. Mr. Stafford.] When did Matene te Whiwhi die ?—I do not remember the year. 37. Do you remember Wi Parata bringing an action against the Bishop about the Porirua land ? —Yes.