1.—14 a.

14

|~G. HOGBEN.

174. Is that sufficient to induce them to come ? —I do not think it is. 175. How much more do you think would be required to induce them ? —I think we should have to give them what we now propose to give in the second year. 176. That is £10 and university fees ? —Yes. 177. Will you work that out too ?—Yes. 178. " For the second year —To every student, whether under clause lor 2, who keeps terms at he university college during the second year, a bursary of £10 .... together with university ees." In my opinion that is not sufficient to induce them to stay two years. 178 a. What do you think would induce them to stay the second year ? —I think it should be not less than for the first year. 179. That is £40 and £60 ?—Yes. 180. Will you work that out too ? —Yes. If you offered that—but first of all you ought not to offer it to every one. 181. What do you mean by that ?—Some will show that they are practically not worth any more training at the end of one year. 182. You suggest there should be a selection after the first year ? —Yes. 183. How would you make that selection ? By examination, or how ? —lt would be by examination and teaching-ability. I think the best way would be for the director —and his certificates would have much weight —the Inspector-General, and the inspectors to do it. 184. The Inspector-General, the local Inspector, and the head of the college should act together ? —Yes. 185. Should it be an oral examination, or written, or what ?—I think the literary examination in that particular case is not the most important part. I think the question is more one of trainingexperience, and so on. Consider one who had been a pupil-teacher for, say, four years, and had shown a certain amount of ability for, say, infant-school work, but was limited to that;—and there are such people—if she had given most of her time in the training college to special work under the kindergarten mistress —which I suppose the training college to hay would not want her to go and take a degree. It would not be advisable that she should waste her time and tire herself mentally by trying to do anything of the kind. There is a certain number to whom a second year's training would not be profitable, and it ought to be determined as to whether they should go on. The tribunal with whom the recommendation rested should be one capable of judging as far as possible ; it must be an expert one. 186. Mr. Hardy.] Would that be for the purpose of determining whether they should take up infantschool work ? —I took that as a special instance. There are other cases, but it is very pronounced in some cases like that. Ido not think there would be very many. Then there would be some with whom nothing would be gained by going on for another year, and then there would be others that would not be willing to go on for another year. 187. Then this committee that had the power of deciding would be able to say that certain persons should be allotted work which would keep them in junior positions in the future, or really of sending them out as junior mistresses ? —I do not see how you could do that. The power of appointment rests with the local authorities, and Ido not think it is desirable it should rest with anybody else. I think that whatever changes take place in New Zealand the appointment of teachers ought to remain with the local authorities. Ido not see how you could continue that and allow any body of experts to earmark teachers for certain work. Let them say how the teacher is qualified, and let the Board decide. 188. Is it within your knowledge that some of the Boards expect their teachers to attain a certain state of proficiency before they appoint them to the better positions ? —Yes ; they are not very definite in the way they do it, but I believe that practically the action of the Board has that effect. They expect the teachers to show evidence of their fitness. 189. Is it your experience that the Boards do this or not—your experience of appointments generally ? —My immediate experience of the North Canterbury Board is that the appointments are on the whole very good. 190. The Chairman.] With regard to the second year at the training college, you said you thought it might be advisable to pay £40 to the town teacher in training and £60 to the country one. Do you wish me to infer that you suggest that that should be paid in the second year to the boys or girls who had entered under clauses 1 and 2, or would you make a distinction between those entering under clause 1 and clause 2in the second year, one having been a pupil-teacher and the other not ? —I do not think I would increase it under clause 2in the second year. The North Canterbury Board years ago had great difficulty with the teachers leaving after being trained. 191. You would leave it I—Yes.1 —Yes. 192. You suggest that for those who come under clause 2 in the first year it should be £10 and the University fees, and in the second year the same ?—Yes. 193. Mr. Hardy.] In order to get over the difficulty that you referred to, would you not take a bond ?—The North Canterbury Board used to have a bond. 194. It might work if a bond were entered into that a student who did not continue would refund the expense of his training, and in addition pay something for the inconvenience which the Department would have to suffer through his going out % —lt would not even get back what you gave, because to train each teacher would cost a good deal more than he would refund ; there is the whole maintenance of the staff. Each college would cost £2,500 besides the allowances to students. 195. The You will prepare us a table, Mr. Hogben, showing the cost of carrying out these suggestions, so that we may get at the cost under the new proposals and under your proposals contained in this letter ? —I will. I may say that the bond did not succeed before—in fact, the pressure of public opinion was such that you could not enforce a bond. 196. The Chairman.] Subsection 2 provides for two years' training. You suggest that a committee might be set up to examine at the end of the first year and advise as to those who should go on to the second year's course ? —Yes.