I.—lo

24

[G. S. MUNRO

41. Outside of those butter-steamers you have just referred to, what other steamers are named in the Shaw, Savill, and Albion Company's tender?—" Waiwera," " Matatua," " Tokomaru," " Maori," " Pakeha," and " Rangatira." 42. These were not fast passenger-steamers trading between New Zealand and London in the butter trade similar to those the New Zealand Shipping Company excluded from their tender ? —No. 43. What passages have those steamers made ? —The only record I have of their steamers is the " Matatua," which arrived in London on the 6th instant after a passage of sixty-two days, and the " Rangatira," after a passage of fifty-six days, and I am not sure, but I understand the" Tokomaru " generally takes sixty days to go Home. 44. Do you think it is at all likely that the Shaw, Savill, and Albion Company intended to withdraw their fast steamers from the London trade and put them on the service to the west-coast ports, running the service to London with their slow steamers ? Do you think it is at all likely they would have done that?—l do not think so. If they intended to employ their fast passengersteamers in the west-coast service, why did they not say so straight out instead of prejudicing their offer by including a lot of slow steamers ? 45. As a matter of fact, if they did withdraw their fast passenger-steamers from the London trade to put them on the west-coast trade, it would either mean giving the other direct passengersteamers a monopoly of passengers by that line, or another company coming in and taking up their trade ?—I do not see how they could possibly have done that—it would have meant giving the other passenger company such a tremendous advantage. 46. If we had accepted the Shaw, Savill, and Albion Company's offer, could they have used the " Matatua," " Rangatira," and other slow steamers of the same class that they offered for this service ?—Yes ; according to the tender, and we could not have refused them. 47. How do the voyages of the slow steamers I have just named compare with those of the steamers engaged in the west-coast service via Australia under our contract ?—lf you take the " Matatua," she takes sixty-two days to go to London direct. 48. She is a Shaw, Savill, and Albion Company's boat ? —Yes ; while the " Dorset," one of the New Zealand and African Company's steamers, called at Hobart, Fremantle, Durban, Port Elizabeth, and Cape Town, and reached London in sixty-six days, or four days longer. 49. Has any question been raised by any one as to the class of steamers which have been engaged under contract with the Government in the west-coast service ?—-No. 50. Mr. Buchanan asked you a question about the extra insurance entailed on shippers to the United Kingdom by steamers on the west-coast run by reason of their having to call at Australia : Have you inquired into that matter ?—Yes; I have made inquiries from the Underwriters' Association, and I find that no extra charge is made. The voyage is considered the same from the underwriters' point of view. 51. Is it the case that an underwriter regards time as an element in fixing the rate of insurance ?—Yes ; I think it would be the essential element. 52. In reference to the question of steamer rates on frozen meat from New Zealand to London, the summer rates rule from December to May inclusive?— That is so. 53. And the winter rates run from June to November inclusive ?—Yes. 54. Will you tell the Committee what is the difference in the freight per pound during those two periods? —The difference is Jd. per pound between the summer and winter rates. 55. What rates of freight were paid on frozen mutton and lamb shipped by the " Rangatira " to Cardiff on the 31st May ? —Jd. per pound on mutton and per pound on lamb. 56. Will you tell the Committee how you came to know that?—l made application to the shippers and ascertained it. 57. Since the Committee last met ?—Yes, since Mr. Duthie questioned me about it. 58. What are the winter rates to Cardiff which came into force on the Ist June in the westcoast service ?—A halfpenny per pound on mutton, and r on lamb. 59. I understand that is, they were Jd. per pound on mutton, and T \d. per pound on lamb, as against Jd. and ifd. charged by the Shaw, Savill, and Albion Company's "Rangatira" on the occasion when they put that boat on for one of the west-coast ports, Cardiff?— Quite so. 60. Will you tell the Committee what would be the difference in the rate as charged by the " Rangatira " on the 31st May for mutton and lamb, and the rates that would be charged by the contract service on the Ist June ?—lt is §d. per pound on both mutton and lamb. 61. What percentage does that difference in freight represent?—On mutton it represents an advance of 75 per cent., and on lamb an advance of 66f per cent. 62. Am I right in stating that this is the position : that to satisfy a desire of New Zealand shippers for an opportunity of shipping frozen meat to Cardiff, the Shaw, Savill, and Albion Company put on the " Rangatira," and because she sailed on the 31st May, instead of the Ist June, shippers had to pay 75 per cent, more freight in the case of mutton, and 66f per cent, on lamb over and above the rates available to London on the following day ? —Yes, that is absolutely correct. 63. And am I right in stating that the " Rangatira" was a slow steamer, and was known to have occupied nearly sixty days on the previous voyage ?— Yes, that is so. 64. Will you tell the Committee what chances there were of initiating or fostering a trade between New Zealand and the west-coast ports of the United Kingdom under such conditions as I have just stated? —Well, I think the position speaks for itself. 65. Now, with regard to butter: Mr. Duthie stated that a delay of fourteen or fifteen days would mean a difference probably of Id. to 2d. per pound in the price obtained for our butter ?—. Yes, that is so. 66. Now, how much is that per ton ?—That is from £10 to £20 per ton.