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any game is covered more or less by " gambling," for if it is not done to-day it will be done to-morrow. If we stopped pak-a-poo some other game would arise to take its place. 19. What is the class of European people that goes there ?—You see people there of many classes. There is the young man who is in a good situation, and the idle and lazy man. Some are habitually on the premises. 20. You say they are mixed ?—I think when the two mix together it is generally found that there ifl vice on both sides. The vice comes more rapidly to the front than the virtues. 21. I suppose the cheap lottery is the temptation to people to go to these places and then they mix together —the good and the bad class of Europeans ? —Yes; there are idle and lazy Chinamen as well as Europeans. 22. Mr. Taylor.] Pak-a-poo is a lottery pure and simple ?—Yes ; but according to the Supreme Court the purchase of the tickets is not sufficient to prove the lottery. Under the existing law pak-a-poo is spoken of as a game, but it is not a game—it is a lottery pure and simple. You take a ticket and make your mark on it, and have to wait your chance of a draw. The Europeans who frequent the houses say that it is a fair game, but that may or may not be so. Of course, no Europeans are allowed to be in the bank at the time of drawing, and I have no doubt that the bank could be manipulated as easily as anything else. 23. Mr. Hardy.] They do not often strike £20 10s. ? —I do not often hear of it. I never met with a case. 24. £20 10s. is a very good sum to strike ? —Yes; but I think the bank would clear a couple of hundred pounds before it was struck for the sum of £20 10s. 25. On Sunday night a man told me that he had speculated 6d. and for that he had struck a dividend of £20 10s. ? —That is quite possible. I have a ticket here now [Produced] in a drawing where no prize was struck. We hear of cases where high prizes are drawn, but hear nothing of the people who draw no prizes. 26. Are there a large number of agents employed by the banks ?—There are twenty-two or twentyfour agents in Wellington. 27. Have you seen their rules posted up ? —Yes ; when a ticket wins it is posted up as a record to show how much money has been paid out on it. 28. The bank gets 6d. for each of those tickets ?—Yes; and the agent receives Id. 29. The bank keeps sd. ?—Yes. 30. I understand that the bank pays out when there are very few investments : it is not like Tattersall's sweeps, where all but 10 per cent, is paid out. The bank pays when a man strikes a certain prize ? —The bank pays on fixed odds on the numbers. 31. What does the bank pay for five ? —Even money. You might invest 6d. and get Is. 32. And for six ?—lt pays Bs. 6d. Of course, the agent gets a commission from that. 33. Of how much per cent. ?—Ten, I think. 34. And for striking seven ? —£3 10s., and it goes on upwards. I think the next is nearly £20. It goes on, I think, up to about £80. 35. Is it within your knowledge that the Chinese themselves invest much money in this game ? — Some of them do ; but they depend mostly upon the money of the Europeans. If it were restricted to Chinese only I think the bank would be limited to once a week. 36. In the event of prosecution can the tools of trade be taken as evidence ?—They are not accepted as conclusive evidence. 37. Do you know anything about the banks themselves, or the means of drawing ? —I know the system of drawing, but I have never been present. I have had it explained and have read of it. 38. The Europeans have no representative present % —No. 39. It is done by the Chinese themselves—by the bank ?—Yes ; I believe it is run by a Chinese syndicate. 40. And this Chinese syndicate is living upon the profits ? —Yes, on the profits of the bank. Of course, the agents are living out of the commissions they get. 41. And how many agents are there selling tickets ?—There are either twenty-two or twentyfour in Wellington, from whom you can buy tickets. 42. That is their professional trade, or whatever you like to call it ? —Yes. 43. Hon. Mr. Hall-Jones.] Is it a local syndicate, or run from other parts ?—I cannot say, but possibly the bank is run for Wellington people. The Chinese stores carried on here have branches all over New Zealand, and the banks may be run in the same way. I think it would be almost impossible, unless you got a Chinese clerk who was in the employ of some of these firms, to explain who runs the bank. 44. The Chairman (to Louis Kitt, the petitioner).] Do you wish to ask any questions ?—No ; I think the witness has told us all about what the Europeans and Chinese do. 45. (To witness) Do you think any of your officers could give us any information beyond what you have stated ?—No. I might say that European women sometimes live with the Chinese. I know three prostitutes who are working in Chinese laundries. In other places there are several Europeans who are married to Chinamen, and the Chinamen invariably treat them well. They give them very little work to do, and feed them well, and give them as much luxury as they can in their own way. 46. Mr. Hardy.] Have you many Chinese criminals passing through your hands ? —Very few. It is very seldom that they take to crime. 47. Have you any half-caste Chinese criminals ? —There is one young man in gaol at the present time, but I cannot say there are any coming under my notice at present. I have known a few halfcaste Chinamen, but cannot call to mind any of them that I should class as criminals. .'pproximate Cost of Paper.— Preparation, not given; printing (1,260 copies), £3 ss. 6d.

I'rice 6d.] By Authority: John Mackay, Government Printer, Wellington.—l9o4.