I.—B.

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fsiß B. 0. GIBBES.

253. You do not know how many you received?— No. 254. Unless you can give us information as to the number you received and what you did with them, it will be almost impossible to ascertain from your evidence whether any information went from your Department in connection with the publication of certain articles in the Neiv Zealand Times ? —I think we know the number of copies that we sent away. Ido not know how many copies are left, but I could ascertain. 255. Will you ascertain how many copies you received, how many you sent away and to whom they were sent, and how many you have left in the office?— Yes. (See Appendix A.) 256. Bight Hon. B. J. Seddon.] Do you not give a receipt for Bills and papers when you receive them ?—I do not think so. I did not give a receipt in this case, and Ido not think a receipt is ever taken. I think the papers come up from the Bill Office without any formula of that kind. 257. Is no record kept of the number of documents that come from the Printer?— No. When you get papers from the Printer you get a slip in pencil. Unless it is something of importance you do not check it. A very large number of these things come over. You get a paper slip from the Printer advising you that he is sending so-many hundred copies of a paper. Well, the clerk looks at them, and judges that the number stated is there, but he does not count them all unless it is something of great importance. 258. Hon. Sir W. J. Steward.] The Committee want to ascertain what has become of the papers that were sent to your office. If you have a record as to how many were sent out and how many you have in your possesion, we can ascertain from the Printer how many copies were sent to you, and that will complete the thing. Can you give the information as to how many copies were sent out of the office, and how many are now in the office ? —Yes, I can do that. I should like to say that previously these papers were not regarded as specially confidential, with the exception of Bills. Bills are treated exceptionally. But all these other matters are no more confidential than hundreds of other papers that are in the office. My rooms contain dozens of papers that are equally confidential, as far as the public is concerned. 1 cannot lock up my room. It is full of papers of that kind, and, with the exception of Bills, these papers have been lying about the office, like all the other departmental papers. There is no idea of regarding them as especially confidential. 259. Bight Hon. B. J. Seddon.} Are you sure of that? Where were these words "Confidential draft " marked on this document ?—That indorsement was printed on it for the purpose of marking the copies that were sent up to the Committee. 260. That was printed by instructions from your office, was it not?— Yes. 261. Can you say after that that this was not confidential?— What I mean to say is that before these regulations were under consideration in the office—and there are now the drafts of them in the office—they were no more confidential than dozens and dozens of other papers in the office, nor are the drafts now. My idea with regard to the marking was that it should inform the Committee that this was a confidential paper. 262. Hon. Sir W. J. Steward.] It was not a confidential paper till that indorsement was put on it?—As far as the public was concerned, it was a confidential paper, because the public knew nothing about it. It was entirely confined to the Department. 263. Mr. Massey.] By whose instructions were the papers marked "Confidential?"— The Eight Hon. the Minister's. 264. The Minister for Education's instructions ?—Yes. 265. Hon. Mr. Guinness.] Am I to understand that only those copies which were asked to be sent to the Committee were marked " Confidential " ?—lmmediately before the setting-up of the Committee these regulations were in long slips, and when it was decided to lay them before the Committee they were, in a great hurry, made up in this form, and a certain number printed in that form, with " Confidential" marked on them. 266. Bight Hon. B. J. Seddon.] You say that they were only put into pamphlet form immediately before going to the Committee ?—Upon the order they were to go to the Committee. 267. You do not have many copies when they are in slips ?—No; just the number that we work on in the office. 268. The slips in the office on which you work are confidential as between the office and the Minister and the outside world ?—Entirely. 269. Hon. Sir W. J. Steward.] The outside world would not have access under any circumstances to these slips?— Certainly not— i.e., they would have no more access than to any other paper in the Department. I have been for thirty years in the Government service, and I have never known a paper to be taken out of the office. The office-door is wide open every night. It is impossible to lock up all the papers. 270. Right Hon. B. J. Seddon.] The Inspector-General has a cabinet, has he not ?—Yes. 271. If he was dealing with slips in a matter between himself and the Minister he would keep them in his cabinet, would he not ? —The great bulk of the work that he is dealing with is between himself and the Minister. All the correspondence that comes in is between him and the Minister. Your directions on correspondence are confidential, but they are not locked up. 272. This document that I have here—one of the confidential papers—has not been printed, has it ?—No. 273. Do you know how many copies of that were typewritten? Who did the typewriting? —The typing was done in our office, and I think about thirty copies were printed from the typed sheets. 274. That is, of the Bill?— Yes. I have some copies now in my drawer—copies of the Bill. 275. How many copies have you?—l do not know. I did not count the original number. I know how many were given out. 276. Have you more than two ?—Yes, I think so.