I.—4a»

54

[ALLAN MCINTOSH.

to travel from this place to the far-off one it took three-quarters of an hour each way. I pointed out to the Judge and the assessors that if in wet weather we compelled our men and boys to travel over hills to the next adit to those workings the men would not go to work, and they would suffer and we would suffer. The Judge suggested a way out of the difficulty in order to make a compromise, and it was brought down for the men to start work at 8 o'clock and leave at five minutes to 4—that is, seven hours and fifty-five minutes underground, including the half-hour crib-time— and the men were satisfied with that. I was afraid that if I made them travel from this adit here [indicating it] I would be infringing the Coal-mines Act. But the Judge said, " You need not fret about that." I said that if I was not infringing the Act we could do that. The Judge put us all right on that point. 669. Mr. J. Allen.] If the Bill becomes law, and the men insist upon the eight hours from bank to bank, not including meal-time, what will you do : will they go down the other adit ?—The men have the option in fine weather to go to the lar-off adit, but if it is wet they lepwe here [indicating place]. Well, if the Bill comes into operation —and, mind you, our future field of coal is the far-off one —it will mean that we will be further reduced by half an hour a day in running coal, because to travel from one adit to the other puts on half an hour. 670. Mr. R. McKenzie.] In answer to Mr. Bennet, you said there was no agitation in your district in favour of this Bill ? —I have not heard a word. 671. If there was, do you think that you would be the first or the last man at Granity that the men would apply to to get a Bill like this passed ?—I do not know ; but one would think that in travelling through the mine one would hear of these little things. 672. But, supposing that for the last eight years the men had been attempting to get a measure like this passed for them, would you consider that an agitation or a desire to get it ?—I should think it was an agitation if they went to you for it. 673. Mr. J. Allen.] Does the Arbitration Court fix the hours of work, or alter them, or have anything to do with them ? —lt has fixed the hours of work and the wages. 674. Seven hours and fifty-five minutes ? —And it has power to alter the hours of labour if it likes. 675. Under another award ?—Yes, I think so.

Allan Mclntosh examined. (No. 9.) 676. The Chairman.] What is your name ?—Allan Mcintosh. 677. What is your occupation?—l am managing director of the Allandale Coal Company, 678. Mr. J. Allen.] Are you a practical coal-miner?—l am. 679. When did you start to be a practical coal-miner ?—I went into a coal-mine forty-five years ago. 680. Have you done all the work underground in your time?—Yes. 681. Hewing coal and all branches of coal-getting ?—Yes. 682. You have been an underground boss?—Yes. 683. And the manager of a coal-mine ?—I have. 684. You have passed from the lowest grade to being managing director ?—Yes. 685. You are thoroughly experienced in coal getting and mining?—l am thoroughly experienced in coal-getting. 686. How long were you the manager of a colliery?—l was manager of the Shag Point Colliery for ten years previous to going to the Allandale Mine. 687. You have been managing director of the Allandale Mine for some years ?—Yes ; fourteen or fifteen years. 688. You know the purport of this Bill now before the Committee ?—Yes. 689. What would it mean to your colliery?—We have seventy-two hands employed all told, men and boys. Taking an average, this half-hour would mean 6d. per head per day, because the average wage is practically Is. an hour. 690. How do you make that out ?—Taking men and boys, the average wage is Bs. a day. 691. What is the average wage of your coal-getters ?—los. a day wages, but those working by the ton would probably make 12s. or 13s. a day, 692. Would this Bill shorten the hours of labour?—Certainly. 693. What effect would it have on the cost of getting coal?—A considerable effect. It would cost us, I should say, about £6 per week extra. It would make a difference in the cost of £1 a day ; and there is the loss of output as well. 694. How do you explain the loss of output ? —We are producing 110 tons a day now in the eight hours. Well, then, I say there would be a loss of somewhere about 8 tons a day in our output. 695. Why should there be a loss?—The haulage is taxed to its utmost in the meantime. The horses down below cannot haul any more than those 110 tons, even if I have 120 men down below. 696. In the busy time ? —Yes. They are taxed to their utmost during the eight hours with the 110 tons, and if the haulage-time is further reduced by half an hour there is that half-hour lost. 697. Could you put out the 110 tons a day working half an hour less?—No, it is impossible. 698. It has been given in evidence that the miners in a mine could, if the hours of labour were shortened by half an hour, produce as much coal to the proprietor as they do now : do you believe that? —No, Ido not. One man out of ten could do it perhaps, but all could not. You might get a thoroughly strong practical miner who has got the real system of producing coal, and all that, who by working seven hours could produce as much coal as any one of nine other ordinary men could do in eight or nine hours each.