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54. Could you not get it put on the Admiralty list?—l am afraid not. They complain of the sulphur. We tried many times with the Union Company. 55. I think if you chartered steamboats you could increase your trade during the present scarcity ?—lt would hardly suit our trade. You cannot keep a steamer waiting. 56. Could you not supplant a good deal of the coal that comes from other parts ? —I think not. We should have to increase our plant very much, for one thing. 57. The greater the output the less the cost per ton ?—That is so ; but it is not every one who will take our coal. Westport has been cutting into our trade during the last year or so. 58. That is very strange, seeing that they cannot supply the orders received from foreign parts?—We had good customers in the Kauri Freehold Gold Estates Company (Limited), an English mining company, but the Westport people cut in with their slack and we lost the trade. 59. I believe they are having difficulty in getting rid of their slack in Westport ?—Yes; but there is a good deal of value in their slack. 60. If you could increase your output you could increase the trade very much ? —Our trade is restricted to Auckland, Thames, and Coromandel. It is not an export coal. We are confined to the local markets. Our mine is not the only mine about: there are the Huntly mines and Ngunguru Mine. 61. The Chairman.] Do you know for what purpose your coal is chiefly used ?—Mostly steam. The Sugar Company are our best customers. 62. Mr. Lomas.] Is it used very much in the brickyards ?—Very little. 63. Mr. Proud.} Is it not used for private business ?—A little. Some people do not like the soot in it. The Waikato coal is much cleaner. But it makes a good house coal for those people who do not mind these things. It is semi-bituminous. When we do not screen it at all there is a fair amount of slack in it. Small lots of household coal are sold in Auckland. Our main support is the steam coal. 64. What is the cost at the pit, and the price realised ?—The average cost for the last two years, exclusive of railway charges, would be 4s. 2d. That is for everything —salaries, wages, and all. 65. The Chairman.] Have you any suggestions to make as to inspection of the mine ? —That is in Mr. Moody's department. 66. Knowing the purpose and scope of this Commission, have you any suggestions to make ?— The only grievance we really have is that we think the railway rate is too high. You can see that it takes up one-third of our receipts. 67. Mr. Lomas.] What royalty are you paying to the people whose land you are working?— For the leasehold land we pay 9d. per ton. 68. Mr. Proud.] Do you not charge a royalty for the freehold ?—No; the royalty is spread over the whole output from leasehold and freehold. I did not include anything for depreciation in that account of cost which I gave. 69. Do you not charge a royalty on the coal from the freehold in your accounts ?—No; the royalty on coal from leasehold is spread over the whole output from both leasehold and freehold. Berbert Kobins Cooke, Managing Director of the Hikurangi Collieries Company (Limited), examined. 1. The Chairman.] How long have you acted in the capacity of managing director? —Four years. 2. The company was formed when?— About four years ago. 3. It owns how much land?—A Government lease of 258 acres. 4. What is the capital of the company ? —BO,OOO shares at 2s. 6d. each. 5. What is the amount paid up?—l cannot tell you the amount unpaid here exactly. 6. What rent do you pay for the land ?—3s. an acre until such time as the royalty exceeds the rent. 7. Is it under the Coal-mines Act of 1891?— Yes. 8. Did you open the ground first ? —We prospected the ground. I was one of the original prospectors. 9. You are now putting out how much ? —About 900 tons a month. 10. And employing about how many men ? —lt varies according to the trade. I suppose, an average of ten. 11. How do you pay the men ?—They are paid lOd. per skip of 12 cwt., and they do all their own timbering (we providing the timber) and cut their own headings. We are working in soft coal. The other company is working in hard coal. 12. This lOd. per skip is at the place where the coal is cut in the mine ?—The men cut it and put it into the trucks. 13. What do you think it costs to take these trucks and put them on the railway ?—lt will average from lOd. to Is. 3d. additional, according to the circumstances of the work, per ton. The cost of winning the coal and putting it on the railway-truck will average from 3s. 3d. to 3s. 9d. per ton. 14. And the railway charge?—ls half-a-crown a ton. I think we should get it for less. 15. Where do you"dispose of the coal?--In Auckland. We charter vessels; we have no boats of our own. We pay about 3s. 6d. to 3s. 9d. per ton freight to Auckland, and sell it there and sometimes at the Thames, the freight to the Thames being about 4s. 6d. 16. What do you get for it in Auckland? —Most of it we sell here f.0.b., and we get from 6s. 6d. to 7s. per ton. 17. To whom do you sell it here?— Mr. Craig, of Auckland, sends his own boats and pays his own freights.