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209. He was prepared to go to the extent of placing temptation in the way of his race for the sake of money ?—-Unfortunately. He was prepared to do what many Europeans are prepared to do. Afterwards he wrote to Mr. Gittos to help him to undo the mistake. In September, 1896, he was strongly adverse to the issue of a license. ' 210. You are not prepared to trust the Maoris with a vote on the liquor question ? —The danger would be that they would be bribed by liquor into voting for liquor, as in past years they have been bribed by liquor into selling their lands. If I may state an illustration of the Eev. Spencer's, he said that he was in a Maori district many years ago when a Government agent came tip and tried to induce the Natives to sell land, but they refused. He then sent for large quantities of beer and spirits, after which the Maoris parted with their land for much less than they had been offered in the first instance. Mr. Spencer's statement was, I think, that he buried thirty-two of them in six weeks. 211. Now, you fear that if they had the right to vote they would be most likely bribed to vote for liquor?— And, sir, I have a high authority for my statement. The Premier said, in 1895 :" If the Maoris had a vote they would leave their settlements with the intention of voting one way, would get liquor into them, and would be in danger of voting another way." 212. There is less sly-grog selling going on now than in the past? — I think, from what Mr. Ellis says, that there is less than there was since Mr. Cullen took it up vigorously in 1897. 213. The Police Commission resulted in a good deal?— That was before the Police Commission in 1898. He had a successful raid then, but I think that the way of grappling with the matter in to prevent liquor going into the country. 214. The Chairman.] Will you tell me when and where Mr. Gittos made this vicious statement, about the Maoris? —23rd September, 1896, I think. 215. Does not this charge reflect upon himself as missionary for the district?—l think not, sir. He said that there were dances held, and the Maori women came there. Liquor was got at the brewery, and they afterwards adjourned to the scrub. He only applied it to that immediate district—Te Kuiti and Otorohanga. The Chairman: It was a fearful thing to say about any one. What impressed me was that there was not a pakeha or a Maori there who interrupted him, and the statement was received with dead silence—no one attempted to dispute it. 216. Mr. Hall-Jones.] Was it indorsed by any one else?—No, sir. The Chairman : The silence shows that it was treated with contempt. Mr. Gittos must have been in a passion. I think it is a stigma Upon our Native population. Mr. Gittos must have been in a passion. Mr. Isitt: No, indeed, sir; whatever else may be true, Mr. Gittos was in no passion. He spoke solemnly and with emotion. The Chairman : I say such a statement, from my knowledge of the Maoris, is a stigma, and cannot be borne out by fact. Mr. Laiury : From mine, too. The Chairman : And I say that he must have made that statement in a temper, and that it was a fearful thing to say about any one; and because no one contradicted it goes to show that it was treated with silent contempt. Mr. Isitt: He (Mr. Gittos) said it as a heartbroken man more than anything else. Mr. Lawry knows that Mr. Gittos is one of the noblest men in New Zealand. 217. Mr. Latury.] Are you personally acquainted with Mr. Ngata ?—No. 218. He is aTe Aute student, Temperance Association ? —I do Hot know. I only know of him as a Te Aute student. 219. Do you know that Mr. Ngata entertains the same opinion of the King-country as you do yourself?—l think it is very probable. He had the pluck to say at the Te Awamutu meeting, by no means a devout gathering, that he would go down upon his knees and thank God, if liquor were prohibited, for protecting the Native race. 220. Had he been in the country? —He had probably been all about it. 221. Are you aware that he is very accomplished, also that he bears a high character ?—I believe so. 222. Would you attach much importance to his opinion ?—I would be disposed to do so, from all that I have heard of him. 223. You say that you went into the King-country in 1896?— Yes. 224. You went as far as Te Kuiti?—Yes. 225. Are you aware that the circumstances of the country have been entirely changed since then ?—Yes. 226. Are you aware that the whole country has been opened up now?—l do not know it in detail. I know there have been some alterations since 1896. 227. Mr. Laiury.] Now, coming back to the Police Commisison, are you aware that all the witnesses before that Commission were in favour of giving the people the right to decide the question ?—No. At that time the question was not asked. 228. You asked the question yourself ? —I do not remember that the question was ever raised. I do not believe it was, but I have the report here if you wish to refer to it. 229. Are you aware that at the time I went up and delivered a public address previous to the sitting of the Police Commission ?—I remember hearing of it, I think. 230. Do you remember commenting on it adversely ?—Very likely. Ido not remember this occasion. I have commented adversely on your statements so often. 231. Do you remember asking me whether 1 did not go up to advocate the right of the people to vote as to whether they should have licenses or not ?—No, I do not remember. 232. You say you attach some importance to those documents (the sworn declarations) ? —Yes.