79

B.—3b

_ 32. Were the moneys set down as paid during the last two years all paid for goods consumed during that time ?—Yes. The amount owing at the commencement of that period for goods would be very small. The receipts during the last two years amounted to £5,284 ss. Bd., and the expenditure to £4,749 9s. 7d., leaving a balance of £534 16s Id. Of the balance there is a current account of £11 16s. lid. in the Union Bank of Australasia, and there is £523 on deposit in the Post-Office Sayings-Bank. 33. Mr. Harley.] It appears that the savings during the past two years have been over £1,000 instead of £523, as we were told yesterday ?—Yes ; a payment of £500 off the debt on the property was accidentally omitted in making up the statement. 34. Were any moneys outside of that required for the keep and clothing of the Brothers sent out of the colony to your Order, or to any other person ?—Not beyond the £15 a year for clothes. 35. None was sent to France ?—No; except for goods received.

Satueday, 4th August, 1900. Eoland Henry Pope, recalled and re-examined on former oath. 1. Mr. Fell] You have examined the books of the Stoke Orphanage. Will you state the result .of that examination? —I spent between four and five hours at the books with Brother Augustine last evening, and examined the accounts for the last two years. With regard to the question of overlapping, there appears to have been nothing of the kind. The amounts shown as expended during the last two years fairly represent the cost of goods consumed during that period. The accounts are paid monthly, and the outstanding debts amount to very little. Icannot say how much stock there was in hand at the commencement of the two years. There is nothing to show anything as to that. The books show that receipts from Government, Charitable Aid Boards, and private sources are treated as one account. But as far as I could see from the books (of course I had no vouchers), assuming their good faith, I think that all the money received from the State, including the Charitable Aid Boards, has been expended on the school, and that what the Brothers have expended has been earned out of the estate and received from other sources. That is to say, the Brothers have not used any State money for their Order. 2. I am told the only sums received by the Order are the amounts of £15 each for the Brothers' clothes per annum ?—Yes, and certain small sums sent to France for clothing received. The latter comprised very small orders—£3o, for instance, in one case. 3. Mr. Harley.] Apparently £500 has been paid off the debt, and £500 saved during the two years. Can you say whether it appears from the books that the money was saved from the Government branch or out of the working of the farm ?—ln two years it would be quite possible to save the money out of the farm. 4. Can you say whether this was done or not ? —The time at my disposal was so short that I had to content myself with looking at the general items to see if they were reasonable expenses, 5. It was quite possible to save the money out of the Government grant?— That is neither here nor there. If the farm could have saved it it does not matter, so far as I can see, as the money all went into one common fund. lam satisfied from the books that there has been expended on the school an equivalent to what has been received from the Government and from the Charitable Aid Boards.

WELLINGTON. Tuesday, 7th August, 1900. John Denis Dullea, Provincial Superior of the Order of Marist Brothers, examined. 1. Mr. Wardell.] What is your name? —John Denis Dullea. I am known as "Brother John." lam Provincial Superior of the order, and generally resident at Sydney. 2. From the evidence we have taken there appeared to be a clashing of authority in the management of the school. We wish to know if the school at Stoke recognises an authority outside of themselves in the person of the Manager approved under the statute ? This is a question vital to us in our inquiry ?—Decidedly. We recognise the Manager. We accept these schools on the condition of carrying them on in keeping with the Government regulations. 3. Are we to understand that the overriding authority, so far as the management of the school is concerned, is that of the Manager?— Yes; Father Mahoney. 4. You recognise that ? —We do. 5. That is, as to the internal management of the school itself ?—Quite so. 6. Is it customary in your schools to keep a record of all punishments?—No, it is not. 7. Mr. Bush.] Would it not be the duty of the Brothers in charge to communicate the punishment and other matters arising in reference to the school to the Manager ?—Our Brothers are counselled to consult with the Manager in the case of any severe punishment. These are the instructions to our Brothers. 8. Do you consider confinement in cells severe punishment ? —I would. 9. Some of these Brothers are fifty or sixty years of age, I believe, at Stoke?— Yes; I think there is one who is between fifty and sixty—Brother Loetus, the Superior. 10. Are there not one or two older than Brother Loetus ?—There is no one older than Brother Loetus there. I have known Brother Loetus a very long time. 11. Mr. Wardell.] What is his nationality?—He is a Frenchman. He is the only Frenchman we have in New Zealand. We have nine schools in New Zealand, with forty-five Brothers engaged in them, and he is the only Frenchman,