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or fifteen years of age, for instance, who show no evidence of reform, and who have a natural tendency to vice—should not be mixed with the better class of boys. 202. You said that in the case of a boy returned from service the school received no aid from the Government or the Charitable Aid Boards. Would you not consider that such a boy ought to earn his own living by working on the school farm ?—From my experience before the Brothers were here, I have found that one man will often do as much work in one day as thirty boys. Supervision takes up more time than the work is worth. I do not think that, after paying for clothes and maintenance, there will be much profit. 203. You can imagine a state of discipline under which they would work and earn their keep? —Well, in such cases they would probably not be satisfied, and would want their wages. Occasionally we have had satisfactory service from such boys. 204. Do you remember Mr. Thompson, the Government Inspector, coming to see you on 17th October last, and discussing with you some of the forms used by the department ?—Yes. 205. Do you remember part of the conversation referring to a certain book?—I do not remember the conversation about it; but I remember receiving a copy of the bookof departmental forms from you afterwards. 206. Do you remember a part of the conversation about punishments?— No. If Mr. Thompson did mention the subject I think he would more probably speak to the Brothers about it. 207. If he had asked, you whether solitary confinement was practised in the school, what would you have answered ? —I would have said, " No." 208. Do you remember telling Mr. Thompson that the only punishment was strokes on the hand?—l do not remember that. I did not know at the time what sort of punishments were in force. 209. Do you remember telling me, on the 25th June last, that the only punishment was strokes on the hand? —No, I do not remember. I may have made some inquiries from the Brothers when I was at the school with the visitors on 6th June, and I may have told you something about the matter. I did not know before the visit of the Board whether the boys received only strokes on the hand or not. 210. Do you remember telling me on 25th June that you did not keep any register of punishments ?—Yes, I remember that. 211. Do you remember me asking you why not ?—No. 212. Do you remember telling me that you considered it was a sort of degradation to a boy's self-respect to have his name down for a certain punishment ?—I may have done so. Ido not remember it. Ido not think it would be a degradation. 213. Then, in that case you are not likely to remember whether you said it to Mr. Thompson in October last ?—No, I do not remember. 214. Do not you think that as Manager it should have been your duty to know what punishments were given in the school ? —I did not investigate the matter ; but it should have been my duty to do so. I recognise now that it is my duty to do so. 215. Have you examined the clothing of the boys?—No, not in any specific way. 216. You did not think that that either was one of your duties as Manager?—No, I did not. Mr. Fell: Ido not propose to call any further evidence.

Fbiday, 3bd August, 1900. Sydney Alfbed Gibbs, examined on oath. 1. Mr. Bush.] You are a duly qualified medical practitioner, residing in Nelson?—l am. 2. Will you kindly state the result of your recent examinations at the Stoke Industrial School?— Dr. Talbot and I visited the Stoke Orphanage on 28th July and Ist August. There are 126 boys on the roll, and-we examined 116, the absence of the other 10 being satisfactorily accounted for. We found the boys generally well nourished and in good health ; but they appeared under-sized. A careful examination of their heights and weights showed that their heights were below the average of boys of the same age in England and Wales. 3. Mr. Bush.] How did they compare with other boys of the district ?—We had no data for such a comparison. The boys presented no marks of injury, but most of them were dirty. With regard to their clothing, it was adequate for purposes of warmth. The underclothing, consisting of a shirt, was made of coarse, hard, unsuitable material. Many of the stockings and socks were full of holes—that is, the part covering the foot. The boots were substantial and fairly new. With regard to the night-clothing, the boys, we understand, sleep in their day-shirts. They have no night-shirts. We examined the boys naked, unclothing the whole of the 116. We went into the dormitories, and pulled most of the beds to pieces. In the new dormitory about half the beds are occupied. The bedding was in a very unsatisfactory condition. Two beds were made up wet; the wetting was probably due to the absence of conveniences. Evidences of vermin were very plentiful in this dormitory. The big dormitory was satisfactory. Most of the mattresses here were new. In the "wet" dormitory no mechanical precautions were taken to prevent the soiling of the mattresses. The children's dormitory was not satisfactory; but not so bad as the new dormitory. Generally, there is a want of care and cleanliness, both as regards the boys' day-clothing and night-clothing. 4. Mr. Harley.] You mentioned that the first dormitory is infested with vermin. What sort of Vermin ?—Fleas for certain. I cannot say about other vermin. I did not see it. The fleas were very numerous. 5. How many occupants of this " wet " dormitory were there ?—About ten, I think. I cannot give the exact number.