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Hector Cebp (known in religion as Brother Loetus) recalled, and re-examined on former oath. 156. Mr. Wardell.'j Is there any system of classification in the school outside the educational classification—that is, as to character ? —The only classification is that the small boys are by themselves in a playground of their own. 157. Do you know whether any particular boy comes as an indigent boy, or as one who has committed some criminal offence ?—No, I do not know always. 158. Have you any means of separating the boys who are licensed out, and who may return, from the other boys ? —No, not at present. 159. You have not any system for separating boys just coming in from those who were previously in ?—No. William Joseph Mahoney, examined on oath. ■ 160. Mr. Fell.] —You are Parish Priest of Nelson and the surrounding districts ?—Yes ; I have held that office since the death of the late Father Garin in 1889. I was assistant to Father Garin for many years, and I have resided here altogether twenty-five years. 161. Will you state shortly the leading facts of the history of St. Mary's Orphanage ? —When I arrived in Nelson in 1875, the Orphanage was in its infancy. Its history till that time from its inception in 1872 was related to me by Father Garin. The first boy was admitted to the Orphanage on the 7th September, 1872, Mr. Oswald Curtis being then Superintendent of the province. The children grew in numbers, and to provide sufficient accommodation, Father Garin bought a property in Manuka Street, opposite the Catholic Church, for £800. This was on the 2nd September, 1875. I was then in Nelson. In January, 1877, an addition was made to the building at a cost of £300. Later on, when the Orphanage was constituted by Parliament as an industrial school for the whole of New Zealand, another wing was added at a cost of £450 ; making a total of £1,150 spent on the property. As the school was the only industrial school for Catholic boys in the colony, boys came from all parts, and the roll was soon a large one. Sir Eobert Stout, when Minister of Education, suggested that the boys should be removed into the country, so that they might have an opportunity of learning farm-work, &c. We had then already been negotiating with Mr. E. Eeeves, of Stoke, for the purchase of a property at Stoke, and the result was that 375 acres of land, a great deal of which was then in a rough state, was purchased for £2,800. We erected a building at a cost of £3,610, the architect being Mr. Somerville. The building was completed in 1896 by the addition of the west wing. The old Orphanage was also removed from town, and the cost of this removal and the new wing was £1,500. Later on the adjoining section of land, known as " Trolove's," was purchased for £2,400. The whole expenditure on land and buildings, including out-buildings, was brought up to £10,310. Part of the money was obtained by an appeal made by Archbishop Eedwood to the Diocese of Christchurch, and to the Archdiocese of Wellington. This produced over £1,000. I also had a bazaar and art union, and in this, and other ways, I collected over £1,000. I also had several bequests. One was left to the school, and the others to myself personally. I devoted all this money to the institution. 162. You yourself are vowed, as are the Marist Brotherhood, to personal poverty ?—I am a Marist Father, but have no connection with the Marist Brothers. We receive no salary ; and we, Father George and myself, do not keep two purses. Of the Church money received part is devoted to household expenses, and the rest goes to Church purposes and charitable works. If I received a bequest, I could not devote it to myself or send it to my friends at home. 163. How much money is now owing on mortgage on the Stoke property?— About £5,000 ; for which" Archbishop Eedwood, myself, and the trustees are liable. 164. The institution is now under the care of the Marist Brothers ?•—Yes. When the Orphanage was in its infancy, and was purely an orphanage, Father Garin had a widow in charge. As the boys became more numerous, a man and a woman, with female assistants, were placed in charge. The Manager's name was Mr. Murphy. About a year afterwards the Orphanage was removed to Stoke. Mr. Murphy remained as Manager there for four or five years. This system of management was not found very satisfactory, and the Marist Brothers were applied to, it having been the wish of the late Father Garin that the institution should be under their control. The school has been in the charge of the Brothers since 1890. I remained Manager, as recognised by the law. My appointment as Manager was gazetted in 1884. Up till the present I have done the clerical work, being assisted in this lately by Father George Mahony. 165. As Manager, did you expect, and have you received, obedience from the Brothers ?—Yes ; I have not had the least difficulty in this matter. The convention with the Marist Brothers provides that they shall manage the school subject to the laws of the land, and that they shall always provide sufficient numbers of suitable Brothers for the work. 166. As to the boys who belong to St. Mary's Industrial School, they are not all sent to Stoke ? —No. As soon as the Brothers came to Stoke I got the Sisters in Nelson to take charge of the little boys. Formerly the boys were sent to Stoke at the age of seven or eight, but lately the age has been raised to nine or ten ; and if a boy seems delicate he is kept on by the Sisters beyond that age. In a few cases, in which the boys are strong-willed or precocious, they are sent to Stoke at an earlier age than that mentioned. The average number of small boys at the town school is from twenty-five to thirty. 167. Mr. Wardell.] When a boy is committed, do you direct where he is to go ?—I get the warrant, and attend to all particulars. 168. Mr. Fell.] Do you classify the boys in any way, distinguishing those who • are committed for criminal offences from those who are sent as the children of indigent parents ? No. It has been a subject of controversy as to whether such a classification should exist. . I gave