63

E.—3b

65. Besides the wool and hops sold, was all the other produce used on the premises grown there ? —Yes. The only exception has been that this year the Brother in charge of the poultry has sold a few eggs to provide the cost of a new fowlhouse. 66. The Brothers' keep and expenses do not include anything in the way of wages?— No. We only get our keep and clothes ; and the £15 a year which is sent to Sydney for the clothes of each Brother is included in the £283. The cost of transfers of Brothers is also included in this sum. 67. Mr. Wardell.] Are the clothes for the Brothers sent from Sydney?— Yes. 68. Mr. Fell.] Of the balance of £523 nothing has gone, directly or indirectly, to the Society of the Marist Brothers ?—Not a penny. 69. One of the objections urged against the school is that there are no women in the establishment. Under your rules, of course, that could not be ?—lt could not be. 70. I stated to the Commission that you would be glad if an arrangement could be made for Official Visitors, male or female or both, to visit the school periodically. Are you agreeable to this? —I would be very glad indeed. 71. With reference to the work done, have you ever been up the hill referred to ?—I went up the hill once ; but never had anything to do with the actual work—if you could call it work. 72. What do you mean by that remark?— Well, on it being announced, even the day before, that the boys were to go up the hill, there was great jubilation amongst them, as it was always considered to be a holiday. On the following morning they would always go off with cheers. I can only recollect one boy who seemed to be discontented with the work. I cannot now remember who he was. That was far beyond two years ago. The boys have been up comparatively seldom during the last two years. 73. Can you, of your own knowledge, say how often upon one day the boys have been sent up the hill and then down again ?—Not more than twice. They sometimes made several trips from the recreation-ground to the boundary-fence. 74. What have you to say about the punishments at the school ?—As regards school punishments, there has been only caning on the hands. This method is appioved by our Superiors. They do not approve of castigation on the body. The punishment on the hands has been inflicted till lately. A strap has recently been used in deference to the wish of Mr. Hogben. 75. When you came to the institution, were the cells in which Maher and James had been confined existing, or have they been built since your time?— The one on the ground-floor existed when I came. The tower-cell was built since by one of the Brothers. It consisted of wood, except the roof, which was of galvanised-iron. The door was of wood, and fastened with a bolt and padlock. The cell has been well described by the previous witnesses. The cell downstairs, which existed before I came, is part of the original building. The boards in front of the window were taken off for the same reason as the cell upstairs was pulled down. This was done in consequence of the visit of the members of the Charitable Aid Board, and the representations * they made. The downstairs cell is now used as a small office for one of the Brothers. 76. Why were the boards put in front of the window of the lower cell ?—For various reasons. One of the inmates of the cell named Willis escaped through the bars, arid we had to board up the window. The rays of the sun were also rather too strong in the afternoon ; and there was more or less communication with the outside. There were ample light and air. One board was close to the top ; and the other spaces between lin. or 2 in. wide. It was light enough in the eel to see to read. There was a crescent-shaped opening in the glass near the bottom board, under which there was an open space. 77. Mr. Wardell.] There was no large opening between the bars through which the sun could come ?—The sun could not come in. 78. Mr. Fell] Mr. Harley thinks there was an open space where one board was left out, Was that so?—I believe so. 79. Under what circumstances was confinement in the cells inflicted?— Ten boys have been • confined since I have been there. During the last two years, boys have been confined there for absconding and insubordination, and three for immorality—one serious case and two minor ones. We did not keep a punishment-book, but I can recollect the boys who have been confined during the past two years. The period in each case may have been from two days to three weeks, or even perhaps three weeks. Leonard Willis, James Lowe, Henry Clements, Herbert Kirk, James Newman, Alfred Skilton, Clarence Shepherd, Walter Henry Yeadon, James Maher, and Alfred James were all confined for absconding ; James McMenamin for insubordination and absconding!; Morris for defiance and insubordination ; and Charles Miller for house-breaking. Three boys were also shut up for immorality. Two of these have since left the institution, but one is still there. Willis, Lowe, Clements, and Kirk, were in a week each. Newman's time I cannot remember, but Ido not think it was more than a week. Alfred Skilton was in two months and three days; but that was while he was awaiting removal to Burnham. Shepherd, who was the companion of Skilton in running away on one occasion, was in for a fortnight or three weeks. Yeadon," Maher, and James were all in a week. McMenamin was only in three or four days, I believe ; Morris two or three days; and Miller two weeks. In one of the minor cases of immorality, the period was two or three weeks, and in the other it was only six days. The third case of this kind was a very serious one; and, on account of the boy's brutish instincts, he was a danger to the rest of the inmates, and it was impossible to leave him by himself. I had to keep him locked up. But he was taken out every afternoon in charge of a Brother for a great portion of the period, and in the morning as well a great deal of the time. While this was going on, I was communicating with the boy's people, and at last I succeeded in getting them to take him away. 80. Mr. Wardell.] How long was he in the cell altogether ?—About three months. I could not possibly leave him in communication with the other boys. His food was not interfered with.