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E.—3b

110. Mr. Wardell.] Do the Government pay for all committed by Magistrates ?—Yes. The Charitable Aid Boards are chargeable with some under section 16 subsection (1.) 111. Do you suggest that the Charitable Aid Board's pay money direct to the institution? 112. Mr. Harley.] Yes. There are five boys in the school who are paid for by the Nelson Board direct. 113. Mr. Harley.] How much a week do the Government pay for the maintenance of boys at this school ?—Seven shillings a week. 114. Do you know whether at Burnham and Caversham the boys have fires in the assemblyroom where they sit at night, and early in the morning?— Yes ; in winter time. They have not in the dining-rooms at present. They have in the play- and school-rooms. 115. What do you call winter time? In what months do they have fires?— Any time from the end of April or the beginning of May to October, at the discretion of the masters. 116. In the scale at Burnham and Caversham dripping is mentioned. What do you understand by that ?—Fat that has left the joint in the course of cooking. 117. Would you call mutton-fat rendered down dripping?—l should not call it dripping; but it would be as good as dripping if done in the proper way. 118. Did you have a look into the diet at St. Mary's.—Yes. When I arrived they had hardly begun to prepare the dinner. I saw them afterwards at dinner. I went into the kitchen. 119. What did they have ?—lrish stew, composed of potatoes, meat, onions, and salt. I do not know whether there was any sugar in it. I believe perfect Irish stew should have some in it. 120. It was cooked while you were there?— Yes; by one of the Brothers, who had two or more boys looking after it. 121. When prepared was it good, bad, or indifferent?—lt was a very fair quality of Irish stew to the taste. I tasted it. It tasted better than it looked, perhaps. 122. It did not look very well, perhaps ?—lt did not look as well as if prepared by the cook of a first-class hotel. 123. It looked appetising ?—lt did not look the opposite. 124. Did you see them at tea ?—No. 125. Were you given the dietary scale ?—Yes; by Brother Loetus. 126. Did the boys assemble for dinner ?—Yes. 127. How about the clothing ?—They were clothed sufficiently, I should say; but the standard was a low one for boys of that age and bodily temperament. 128. Were they ragged ?—Yes; a few of them, but not so as to affect health ; objection might be taken to it from the point of view of general appearance and moral effect. 129. Did you notice any with toes out of their boots or hair out of their hats ?—One or two of the boys had hair out of their hats, and some had no hats. Some had very indifferent boots. 130. Mr. Wardell.] Where were they ?—The bulk of them were outside. Some were preparing the potatoes; some were in the garden, on the farm, and at other jobs. 131. Mr. Harley.] Did you examine them as to their underclothing ?—Yes ; I examined enough to get a good idea. 132. After examination of that clothing could you say whether it was equal to or better or worse than that at Burnham or Caversham ?—lt was not equal to the winter clothing at Burnham and Caversham in essential particulars. lam not speaking of appearances. 133. You do not think that appearance is of importance ?—1 do not say it is not of importance, but it is not of the greatest importance. 134. In what respect did you consider the clothing deficient ?—The underclothing was not warm enough. Some of the boys had no socks or boots. Some had boots and no socks. I did not take so much notice of that. In some parts of Great Britain boys go out altogether without boots, but with proper provision made for exercise. 135. I gathered from you that the boys at Burnham and Caversham are better and warmer clad ?—Yes; in winter time. 136. There is no uniformity of clothes at Stoke ?—No ; there was not that degree of uniformity that I should expect. 137. They were not dressed in uniform ?—No. I do not think it desirable they should be. 138. If dressed in uniform, would that not facilitate inspection ?—There is no difficulty about inspection even if they have no uniform. I think the material may be uniform without the colour being uniform. There might be a certain amount of uniformity in clothing, but lam not using the word " uniform " in its technical sense. 139. You saw the two shirts produced. Do you consider that material suitable for boys ? If washed beforehand, say twice, I do not think it would be unsuitable. 140. Unwashed it would be stiff and hard ?—Oh, yes. 141. How did the boys look in regard to personal cleanliness?— They might have been cleaner; but Ido not think it amounted to an irregularity. 142. I suppose it is understood by the department that the boys are taught to work ? Yes. 143. What do you think would be the height of the hill behind the Orphanage?—l think 1,200 ft. is near the mark. 144. Do you think the boys should be sent up there for wood three or four times a day ? It ; depends whether you are used to hill country. Having spent a good deal of my time in hilly country, Ido not think much of it. It is all a matter of habit. 145. You know that boys are buried at the Orphanage ?—Yes; I was informed so. 146. Are you aware there is a cemetery there ?—I do not know that of my own knowledge. It may be in the records of the department. We have a check in other ways, as we receive the certificates of death in every case. „ 147. Are there any cemeteries in the grounds at Burnham or Caversham?—No.