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138. Was it favourable or unfavourable? —Very unfavourable. 139. Did you think the food you saw on 30th May was worse than that seen on previous occasions ?—No. 140. Did you consider the boys poorly clad for May ? —Yes; the clothing was insufficient in quality, thickness, and so forth. 141. When did you first notice the clothes?—On my first visit some years ago. 142. Is the clothing becoming better or worse? —I do not think it is very much changed. 143. The boys have been both ill-fed and ill-clothed for some time past ?—Yes, in my opinion. 144. How often have you been in the habit of visiting the institution ?—Perhaps twice a year. I have been twice this year. 145. I suppose the Board expects you to keep yourself properly informed on the subject ? —Yes. 146. When did you first mention to the Board the poor clothing and food ?—I do not remember. It has been mentioned and talked about for the last year or two. 147. Mr. WardelL] Did you ever in any capacity, verbally or in writing, bring under the notice of the Board prior to your visit in May last, that in your opinion the boys were poorly clothed and fed ?—I have given my opinion and discussed the matter. 148. Have you ever brought it officially under the notice of the Board ?—I do not remember that I have introduced it. Bat it has been mentioned and discussed. 149. Mr. Fell.] Have you ever made any representations to that effect to either Dean Mahoney or Brother Loetus ?—No ; not that I am aware of. 150. Mr. Bush.] Nor did your Board officially communicate with the managers of the institution?—No, it did not. 151. Mr. Fell.] Had you made any complaint to the management upon any ground whatever until May last ? —No. I think not. 152. Have you ever on any occasion suggested to Dean Mahoney or Brother Loetus any complaint as to the management of the school ?—No. I may have had occasion, but have not done so. 153. Then the first time you have officially complained was on the visit of 30th May ? —Yes ; that was the first official complaint made. 154. Are you aware whether after your visit effect was given to your complaint by the boys in confinement being liberated?—l do not know; but we were promised that they would be liberated. 155. This is the first time you have complained?— Yes. We never had evidence before. 156. Pardon me; you say the boys have been poorly fed and clad for the last two years?— Yes; but we had no direct evidence. 157. But you never went to a meal there ?—No. 158. Did you ever notice on a visit that the boys showed signs of sickness, ill-health, emaciation, or anything else ?—The boys looked very healthy. 159. Is it not a fact that throughout the boys are very healthy ? —I believe they are. 160. I notice under date of Bth February in your writing an entry in the visitors' book signed by yourself and other members of the Board as follows : —(reading from the visitors' book) : " Bth February, 1900. —The members of the Hospital and Charitable Aid Board have this day paid a surprise visit to this institution, and are very pleased with what they have seen. The boys appear healthy, happy, and well cared-for, and reflect very great credit on the manager of the Institution, Brother Loetus." That is in your writing ?—Yes. 161. At that time you were of opinion that the boys were poorly clad and fed ?—They were not on that day. I have already explained why. 162. How were the boys generally clad ?—They were generally prepared for visitors, and, of course, looked all right. 163. Mr. WardelL] You say the boys looked happy and well ? That could not be done by preparation? —No. That would not be so. 164. Mr. Fell.] There is another entry in the book in your writing. (Entry read.) 165. Mr. WardelL] What is the date of that entry ? 166. Mr. Fell.] The 12th February, 1896. 167. Mr. Harley.] This raises the question of the two years' limit. I am quite willing for it to go in, but would like to know whether this evidence is to be admitted. 168. Mr. Bush.] We don't want anything beyond the two years. 169. Mr. WardelL] No ; neither from one side nor the other. 170. Mr. Fell.] My object was to show that the witness's evidence was tainted, and that on previous occasions he said he found everything satisfactory, whilst he now says he has always been of opinion that the boys were poorly clad and fed. 171. Entry disallowed. 172. Mr. Fell.] During the whole of the time you have been Chairman of the Board no entries have been made in the visitors' book showing that you have not been satisfied ? —There is only one entry, and that is a favourable one. On previous occasions we refrained from making entries. 173. Why was that?—We did not wish to make entries that were not true. 174. Why did you not make entries? Was it to screen the management?—No ; we did not wish to say things which were not true. 175. You say that all this time during the two years you knew the boys were ill-fed and illclad, and yet you made no complaint or representation ?—No ; we had no status, and it would have had no effect if we had made a complaint. 176. But you thought you had a status and yet you made no complaint. You say now that all these visits were not in effect surprise visits, because the management were always informed of them beforehand. How do you know this ?—On one occasion Mr. Everett, who was Chairman of the Board, told Father Mahoney. 3—E. 3b.