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and is owned by an entire novice. She was practically useless. She was sent back to the owners and lay on their hands. The man who took the " Dolphin "to Kaipara has run her about three thousand miles without a hitch. She is about three or four horse-power. 507. Take the " Tairua " ?—Meinburg owns and runs her. He has a third-class certificate and has no trouble with her. 508. What about the " Queen of Beauty " ?—She is at Auckland, and is a private yacht. She has not done much running and is managed by the agent of the Union engines in Auckland. The man has a river certificate, I believe, and has no trouble. 509. Take the " Norseman " ?—She is another private yacht. Mr. Bluck was owner, and ran her very successfully. He is a mechanical man, and built or partly superintended the building of the yacht. She has a Century Motor Company's engine, and their engines are as good as the Union's. The workmanship is very good. 510. There is a private yacht owned by Mr. Henderson ?—Yes. He has had a lot of experience in oil- and gas-engines. 511. What about the " Thistle "?—They had some trouble with her at first. She is a twinscrew boat of ninety-five-horse power. She gave a little trouble at first, but has been very successful for a long time. She is run by a third-class engineer—a practical man. 512. Tell us something about the " Waiapu " ?—She is a home-trade boat, run by Captain Martin. I surveyed her recently. Captain Martin was compelled to take a certificated man on board. He was his own engineer up to then, and seemed to manage the boat very successfully. He must have three or four years' experience. When the law came into force providing for a certificated engineer to be carried, he got one, but somehow or other he was very antagonistic to the young man. He would not allow him even a chance to start her, but put him in the galley to cook for the crew. I told the captain that I knew the lad, and that he knew more about machinery than he knew about cooking. I saw the lad also, and told him he ought to think himself a very lucky man to get £10 a month for taking lessons in cookery. He was learning another profession. 513. There was another little boat called the " Worksworth " ?—Yes, Captain Standen. His boy acts as engineer, and I think they have done fairly well. The last time I saw Captain Standen he was complaining very much about the expense of keeping her up. 514. In the case of the " Hercules," there is a practical engineer running her, and in that of the " Brothers," the young fellow is a born engineer?— Yes, but not certificated. 515. Mr. Symes.] You have said that the " Waiapu " was running several years successfully before the owner was compelled to take a marine engineer ?—Yes. 516. Just as successfully as she has been running since ?—The marine engineer was put into the galley ; he did not take charge of the machinery. The captain said he could not give him a discharge as an engineer, and I said, " You could not give him a discharge as a cook." 517. Has she been running as successfully since ?—There is no engineer on board. 518. Is he not compelled to take an engineer?—No, he has got a permit; and, as he employs a captain, he takes charge of the machinery. 519. Do they generally pay cooks £10 a month?—No, that is what the boy laughed at. 520. Does this boat carry passengers ?—No ; cargo. 521. Do you know at whose instance this law was first introduced compelling vessels with oil-engines to carry marine engineers ?—I have no idea. 522. How long has it been brought into force ?—This is the first year, I think. 523. I think you said you did not know whether the engineers were antagonistic to oil-engines or not ? —They evidently showed some feeling when they formed a deputation to the Minister about it. 524. Could any marine engineer go straight away and work one of these engines ?—Perhaps he could not start one, but he could work it. He could take charge of the engine, although he could not start it. 525. The Chairman.] Supposing some one started one, could an engineer stop it ?—Yes. 526. Mr. Symes.] No matter how highly certificated these engineers may be, they cannot, without experience, work these oil-engines. That is your evidence ? —Without trial. 527. Do you think it fair that the owner of a vessel should be compelled to pay a man to work an engine when he cannot do it?— The oil works it. If they are not able to start and stop the engine they are of no Where you would find one or two who could not start the engine you would find a dozen that could. 528. Do you not think there should be some provision made that, when an owner has hired one of these men, he should be competent to manage the engine ?—Yes. 529. And he cannot do that without some experience ? —He should have a trial. 530. Do you think it right that the owner should pay for teaching that man ? —No, the men should make themselves qualified, and not make fools of themselves before going on board. I should be sorry to go on board and not be able to start an engine. 531. You have heard of failures?— Yes. 532. Is it not a fact that you have heard of more failures than successes ?—No, I have not. Those I have quoted—there must be about a dozen—l think are all pretty successful but two; and there must be men who can handle tools. 533. You have told us there was a great deal of trouble about fitting rings, and that a man must be competent to do it ?—There is no trouble, but a man must be competent to do it. 534. Have you ever seen a reaper and binder, or a hydraulic ram?— Yes. 534 a. There is a good deal to go out of order in those machines ?—Yes. 535 Yet it is possible for a man with an ordinary intellect to repair them?— Yes. 536. It is not necessary for him to be an engineer ?—No. 537. Experience should be one of the main tests, beyond the ordinary use of tools?— Yes.