7

H.—26

nothing to show on the papers why this had been done. Of course the department had come to the conclusion that there had not been sufficient service. Was further application made after that reply had been sent?— Yes, the position was that there was some time when the vessel had been away without record, and that the services given and certified to by Mr. Williams had been performed. That was the matter at issue between the department and Captain Jones. 5 And did a deputation wait upon you in connection with the matter?— Yes, and I think I was interviewed by Captain Jones himself prior to the deputation. 6. Then after the deputation had seen you, did you look into the matter further ?—Yes Anyone looking at this file will see the large number of times recorded of service. There are nine times marked m red ink, and that raises a doubt in my mind as to how, where there is no record, that should be looked at. There was a positive statement of Captain Williams on the one hand, and there was no record by the department on the other, and that always weighed on my mind, that there might be something in the contention of Captain Jones as to his service ■ + o ni JT °u U f , c statement of his takin g the vessel out of the harbour without a permit ?—That also had to be considered, whether a captain who disobeys the law in that respect should have the time counted. Ido not think it should myself. 8. During this period is it correct that you were dealing solely with this service certificate?— f-"i ulf £ 6W , an y thm g whatever about an application or examination for another certificate until after Mr. Huteheson made his speech in the House. Up to that time, if anyone had mentioned anything about Captain Jones's certificate, I should have taken it to apply to this service certificate, owing to having been brought into it by these papers. 9. What was your next connection in the matter so far as you remember ?—At the time of the deputation, as far as my recollection serves me, or at some time, there were some letters or testimonials produced by Captain Jones, or whoever it was that came to see me about the matter I have proof of that from a memorandum I have here, that I find among the papers- "Mr Allport—Captain Jones says he sent in a letter, signed by a number of sea-captains. Letter does not appear to be attached.—T. Hambe. 8/12/96." 10. Who is T Harner ?—He is my private secretary. " Mr. Hamer-The documents referred to were returned to Captain Jones along with his other testimonials, when he was informed that the certificate could not be issued. 8/12/96." . H - Who signed that ? Mr. Allport. The next is : " Will Captain Jones kindly supply letter Lfr T Fam™ / ' 2/9 T,'', t ? aptaln joneS SayS the erS have not beeQ -turned to k?T i £ 1 i /12 / 96 - That , hel P s m y memory considerably, because it fixes the date about which there has been some doubt as to when the matter had been brought under my notice There is a letter signed by Mr. Glasgow on the 26th February, 1896. and this shows first that there were some letters signed by a number of captains in Captain Jones's interest with a view of furthering Captain Jones's application. I wanted to get this letter after Mr. Allport says he had returned it to Captain Jones. Then Captain Jones says it was not returned to him 12. Had you seen these letters ?—Yes, I had a recollection of some of the captains, or some testimonials, supporting Captain Jones's application. That runs in my memory. I wanted to go through the letter again, and these memoranda will show that. But not only that it has another bearing, because, about the time the deputation came to see me, these papers or testimonials and other letters were either brought to me or had been sent, and at that time I sent for Captain Allman, One has so many thousands of things running through one's head. But I might tell your Honours tnat my recollection is that, just about the time the deputation was leaving I met Captain Allman about the entrance of the Cabinet-room. Ido not think he was present with the deputation but I either met him in the Cabinet-room or about the entrance to the Cabinet-room, and I think I told him what the deputation had been seeing me about. ♦ tir yoU wu T an y^ in g about the se testimonials ?—My recollection is not complete as to that time-whether I then handed to Captain Allman these testimonials or whether I sent them to him a few days alter lam inclined to think it would be the latter, because of the minute that was on the envelope to the effect, " Can anything be done for this man? " or something of that 14. You made that minute on the envelope ? Yes. to Ward ' ] What iS the datS ° f that envelo Pe?—That I cannot say, but it must be prior 16 Mr. Hanlon.] But you made a minute on the envelope?—l either said to Captain Allman £■* ?*w ° ! nvel °P e > " Gan an y thin 8 be d ° n e for this man ?"or " Captain Jones," or some" tiling oi tiiSjti sort. 17. What became of the papers?— They were sent on to Captain Allman. lam in doubt ■ I am not sure whether I gave them to him or sent them on a day or two after. But, as I say as far I remember there was a difficulty as to this service, and the only reason I referred to Captain Allman was to see whether there was anything disclosed in these letters to alter the position I cannot recollect at the time what they were. + - 1^u I !u Ye y ° U an y/ ec ° llection as to what Captain Allman either said or minuted in connection with these papers ?-Yes; it was that they threw no further light on the matter, or I think it was minuted that « Nothing can be done." It was an envelope addressed to me with these papers from Captain Jones, as far as I recollect, and there was nothing to make them official; and they were just sent on to Captain Allman, and he said, « No, nothing can be done," and, as far as mv recollection goes, they were sent back to Captain Jones. y i a 19 , i aQy rat f;, they Were not kept o ffi cially ?—No, because since that it comes to my knowg ? ,v a * ° a P tain AUman saw this envelope in the possession of Captain Yon Schoen, so there is proof that that must cither have gone to Captain Jones, who gava it to Captain Yon Schoen or else