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granted. Now, in 1897 the Premier went to England, and on his way to Auckland he was spoken to by Captain Fairchild, of the Government steamer " Tutanekai," who asked what was causing the delay in issuing the certificate to Captain Jones, and if anything was going to be done with regard to it. Mr. Seddon replied that so far as he knew the matter was under consideration, and he would send to the Minister to get the matter settled. On arrival at Auckland the Premier wired to the Minister of Marine, saying, that he would be glad if the Minister would have the question of issuing the certificate to Captain Jones of the " Duco " settled. Now, it will also appear from the evidence that late in 1896, or early in 1897, Captain Jones interviewed Mr. Hall-Jones, Minister of Marine, and said he had applied for a service certificate, but the department would not issue it. The Minister made inquiries, and on getting the papers from the department found that the department had advised that there were inaccuracies in Captain Jones's statement of service, and he declined to interfere with the decision which had been arrived at. Then, about some three weeks after the Premier left for the Old Country, Captain Jones asked the Minister of Marine to reconsider the matter, but he declined. Then Captain Jones asked the Minister of Marine if he had consulted the Nautical Adviser, Captain Allman, and he replied that he had, and that Captain Allman was of the same opinion as the other officers of his department. At a subsequent interview, at which Captain Jones was present, Captain Allman suggested that Captain Jones might go up for a certificate of competency. Of course, for a service certificate, service has to be shown; but for a certificate of competency you have to show something more. After discussion, Captain Allman said that Captain Jones had not the qualification of a mate's certificate to qualify him, and it might probably be necessary for a permit to be issued allowing Captain Jones to sit for examination. Dr. Giles : Can you tell us the meaning of the word " permit "—permit to sit for examination ? Mr. Hanlon : It means that a permit might be given for him to sit for examination without a mate's qualification. Mr. W. T. L. Travers: On what authority ? Mr. Hanlon : I do not say. I am saying that this is what Captain Allman said to the Minister. Judge Ward : Although there is no authority for granting such power? Mr. Hanlon: Probably not. What Captain Allman wished to put to the Minister was that before the Collector of Customs would allow Captain Jones to sit for examination, some permission 'would have to be given by the Minister for Captain Jones to sit without possessing the qualification of a mate's certificate. That is what Captain Allman put to the Minister. that time the Minister took a note on an envelope in the following words—"Jones, 'Duco.' Permit Exam. Master." Mr. Travers : Where is the envelope ? Mr. Hanlon : I shall produce it. Mr. Travers : They are the words written on the envelope, but not in the form my friend puts them. Mr. Hanlon : Quite so. I shall put that in evidence. Mr. Travers : I am advised that the word "permit" is pronounced as a verb, and not as a noun. That is the difference. Mr. Hanlon: That is a question for the Commissioners. These words were put on the envelope, as the Minister will say, as a reminder to himself to get information from the Secretary of Marine. Then Captain Allman said he would look into the regulations and see if Captain Jones's tug service would count, and the Minister handed the envelope to Captain Allman. Captain Allman: That's a lie. Judge Ward : Who made that statement ? Cap tarn Allman : I did. Judge Ward : Then you will leave the room. Mr. Hanlon: The Minister states that he handed the envelope to Captain Allman and heard nothing more about it until the statement made by Mr. Hutcheson in the House. Dr. Findlay : Permit me to apologize for Captain Allman, your Honours. He has been in a nervous condition and has not had any sieep. I feel that he gave way under the strain. I also feel embarrassed by his absence. Judge Ward : If you can answer for your client's behaviour in future. Dr. Findlay : Plainly, it was offensive and improper conduct; but I will speak to him, and I do not think the Court will suffer from any further interruption from him. Judge Ward : Very well; you may recall him. Captain Allman (on entering): I regret, your Honour, that I made that remark at the particular time. Judge Ward : Very well, Captain Allman, we will excuse you this time. Pray do not make any remarks at a future time. Your counsel will do that for you, if necessary. Mr. Hanlon : I would like to trace the events from the writing of the envelope by the Minister of Marine. It will be seen from the evidence, according to the statement of Mr. Allport, Chief Clerk of the Marine Department, that he took the envelope from Captain Allman, and that Captain Allman stated that the Minister had instructed him to tell him (Mr. Allport) to dispense with the requirement for obtaining the certificate. Upon this point there will be some conflict of testimony. However, Mr. Allport, acting on the envelope as a Ministerial instruction, sent a letter to the Collector of Customs, dated the 12th July, 1897, as follows: — I have to inform you that tho Minister of Marine has directed that Captain Jones, of the s.s. " Duco," is to be permitted to go up for examination for a certifioate of competency as master, home-trade, without the qualification of having in possession a mate's certificate for one year. If Captain Jones makes an application to be examined, he should therefore be examined without production of a mate's certificate. GuoEGi) Allpqbt, for Secretary.