G.—2

43

—I and the tribe. I have not consulted with any one as to what I was to say in this Court. I am not like you, desirous of catching every kaka you see. I was angry when No. 11 was before the Court in 1886, because you proposed to put Warena's name in in the Court and not to the people. We all left the Court in consequence, and went to our quarters. We did not know on that date that the order had been made for No. 11. The Ohau land was first offered to the descendants of Whatanui at Mangakahia's Court. They objected to it, and it was placed at Eaumatangi. The Ohau land was not offered to them again. It lay there, and was awarded to Kemp on the last day of the Court, after we had disposed of all the divisions. Major Kemp said, " That block is for me." It was arranged outside that Kemp was to have it, and then it was taken into Court to be confirmed. It was not passed on the first day, although Kemp applied for it, and there were no objectors. [Horowhenua Commission, page 271, question 137, read to witness.] That is true. Waiwiri was given to Kemp twice —once outside the Court, and again inside the Court. [Horowhenua Commission, page 272, question 138, read out.] [No clear reply. Witness did not appear to understand]. I heard part of Eu Eeweti's evidence before this Court. Not all of it. The tribe were present when Kemp said that No. 14 should be for him, in the barn. You were present as the kakvhakahaere until the Hamua Block was dealt with; then you and Kemp turned back to back. You were present when Kemp said that No. 14 should be for him. We all agreed to it. We did not say " Kahore." We said " Aye "in the Court. I know that there were 143 persons in the original certificate of 1873. We divided them into classes outside the Court—the Hamua to their block, the Eangitane to their block, the Muaupoko to their block, and the rerewaho to their block —so that each set should have a separate block. The resident Muaupoko got 105 acres each. I see that Kemp's name was struck off the list of No. 3. It is quite clear that he left that block for his people, and kept the Ohau Block for himself. Having been struck out of the Muaupoko Block, where would he have had his land if not in the Ohau Block ? His name was not in Eangitane, Hamua, or Ngatiapa blocks. It was not intended that Kemp should share with us in No. 3. Ido not know that Kemp's name was struck out of No. 3 Block because he had asked for the 800 acres to pay his debts with. His name was not struck out for that reason. Your quarrel with Kemp commenced about the time the Hamua Block was dealt with. I heard you and Kemp quarrelling in the Court. You came into the Court after that, but you two sat back to back. I cannot remember whether the Hamua Block or the square foot was cut off first. It was the railway block you and Kemp quarrelled about. You continued to live in the same house after your quarrel. Cross-examined by Mr. Stevens. Witness : It is a fact that Kemp went into our barn and said that he should have the 1,200 acres at Ohau. Eu Rewiti was the only descendant of Whatanui present. Kemp stood near the door. McDonald was somewhere opposite the door. The Muaupoko were in the body of the building. I have nothing to say if Ru Rewiti stated in this Court that someone replied to Kemp when he said he would have the 1,200 acres at Ohau. No one replied to him inside the building. There was no other discussion about No. 14 than the one I have referred to. Kemp spoke about it first. Cross-examined by Mr. Baldwin. Witness : Pomare and Heni came into the barn and objected to the Ohau land. I was present. After we had discussed the first three blocks outside we heard that Mangakahia had arrived. I did not say that Nicholson objected to the Ohau land. I said he asked to see the plan. It was Heni and Pomare who objected to the Ohau land, because it was stony. This was at our kainga. It was only mentioned at Mangakahia's Court that Ohau had been offered to the descendants of Whatanui, and that they had refused it. Nothing else was done. Ask McDonald who mentioned it. It was either he or Kemp. They were our kaiivhakahaere. There were no meetings outside about the location of the land for the descendants of Whatanui between the time the first Court adjourned and the second Court opened. Arahia and Ngahuia are both Muaupoko. The latter is my niece. She is in the rerewaho list. Arahia is also known as Rahira Horima. She is not in the list of rerewaho. I contended before the Commission that she should be put in. Hamua is a hapu of Ngatikahungunu, not of Muaupoko. No. 14 was given to Kemp after all the other blocks were disposed of. He asked for it, and we consented. The Court adjourned till the 16th instant.

Tuesday, 16th March, 1897. The Court opened at 10 a.m. Present: The same. No. 1, Horowhenua No. 14, resumed. Eaniera te Whata cross-examined by Henare te Apatari. Witness : Muaupoko is the principal tribal name of the owners of this land. I know the hapu names of the members of this tribe: they are Ngatihine, Ngaiteao, Ngaitamarangi, Ngatipuri, Ngaiteriunga, and Ngaitaratu. These are all I can remember, but there are others. Ngatipariri belong to Hamua, not to Muaupoko. I have heard it stated in other Courts that Ngatipariri was a hapu of Muaupoko. It was a woman who introduced the Ngatipariri hapu into the Muaupoko Tribe. I don't know the name of the woman. She married a man of the Muaupoko. Her descendants would only have rights through their Muaupoko side. They would have no rights through their mother. I cannot give the name of the man of the Muaupoko who married the Ngatipariri woman. I don't know it. I am not now giving a ivhakapapa. It was Kemp who agreed to give the land at Ohau to the descendants of Whatanui. He brought the matter before the people. Pomare and Heni Kipa objected. Kemp told us in the barn that he was offering it to