G.—2

32

found all over the block. Others have ancestral rights with me. I know who they are, but it is no use going back to ancestral rights now, as the land is now held under European title. My own ancestral rights extend over the whole 52,000 acres. I was born at Manawatu, at a place called Te Wheeki. My father went there from Horowhenua. He previously lived at Papaitonga, Otaki, and the Pelorus. I knew Kaewa. She was born at Te Waitawa. She never lived at Horowhenua. Kawana married her at Waitawa, and took her to Eangitikei. She never returned to Horowhenua—never lived permanently at Horowhenua. When she died her head was brought to Horowhenua. I do not know where it is buried. I knew Wirihana, younger brother of Hunia. His body and that of his wife were brought to Horowhenua when Hunia began his mahi kino. I applied to Kahui's Court for an order for No. 14 on the 2nd December, 1886. Objectors were challenged. There were none; but the Court did not make an order on that occasion. The next day I renewed my application, and an order was then made in my favour. I know of no application in writing on the 2nd December, 1886. I did not see any name written on a piece of paper on the 2nd December, 1886. I did not hand in any list of names to Court of 1886 for No. 14. I was the only owner. Why should I hand in a list of names? I may have handed in a paper with my own name on it —I cannot remember. lam certain I applied for No. 14 on the 2nd December, 1886. If there is nothing about it in the minutes I cannot help that. Ido not remember who acted as our clerk in 1886. It may have been McDonald. [Paper purporting to have been handed in to Court on the 3rd December, 1886, and containing witness's name, produced to him.] Ido not remember seeing that paper. Do not know who wrote my name on it. I still say that I made an application on the 2nd December, 1886, and that the Court did not make any order until I renewed my application on the following day. Cross-examined by Mr. Baldwin. Witness : I remember the date of my first application for No. 14; it was on the 2nd December, 1886. I knew this date at time of Commission, but I did not make it known because I knew the Commission was intended to injure me. Ido not remember the exact date Judge Trimble's Court sat. I was not conducting my own case before that Court. Mr. J. M. Fraser acted for me. Do not remember date I gave evidence before that Court. I cannot remember date of my leases to Sir Walter Buller, or whether he went to England before or after the Court of 1886. Sir Walter Buller acted as my solicitor sometimes, off and on, between 1874 and 1886 ; not for all purposes. Ido not remember the date Sir Walter Buller went to England. I cannot remember date of Supreme Court case in Wanganui before the Chief Justice. Sir Walter Buller and Mr. Edwards acted as my solicitor and counsel. Do not remember date Appellate Court sat at Otaki for No. 9. I cannot remember when I first got possession of the Crown grant for No. 14. It may have been in 1888. I cannot say for certain. The Horowhenua Commission sat last year. I had then had a grant for No. 14 for nearly ten years. I should have said so before the Commission. I was mistaken in saying fifteen years. I said yesterday that two people prepared the list of names for the title of 1873. Others interfered, and the result was that some of the people were omitted, [Horowhenua Commission, page 178, question 247, read out.] Te Whatahoro was the clerk, fie wrote the names down. The other two gave him the names. I admitted before Appellate Court that I had suppressed boundaries in 1873. That was because Ngatiraukawa came to me with their conquest, and not to claim the fulfilment of my ancestors' promise. Up to 1886 I was sole certificated owner of Horowhenua. lam the chief of the land. I had sole control of the land, and resisted Ngatiraukawa. From 1873 to 18861 settled everything in connection with Horowhenua. The tribe arranged about the lease ; I assented to it. They asked me to allow the land to be leased, and I consented. I arranged about the lease of the timber. Before subdivision of 1886 I sent a messenger to Muaupoko, to my section of Muaupoko. I think my daughter carried my message, but lam not quite sure. I sent the messenger to Horowhenua to tell the people to go to Palmerston. Ido not know whether any of them remained behind at Horowhenua : they may have. The surveyor arranged the divisions on the plan. It was a committee of the people who selected the names for the several divisions. This course was adopted with regard to all the parcels. I cut off Nos. 6 and 14, but I advised the committee of what I was going to do. Everything was brought before the committee. The tribe did not agree to Warena's name being put in No. 11: they wished my name only put in. I put Warena in : McDonald knows this. The boundaries of No. 14 were extended westward of the railway because there was not sufficient land east of the railway. The tribe agreed to the extension of the boundary. They agreed that I should have 1,200 acres. [Horowhenua Commission, page 172, question 164, read out.] I say now that the people did know of it. I was confused when I made that reply to the question before the Commission. When I say that the people knew it I mean that they consented to my getting 1,200 acres. We had several meetings to divide the land before the Court sat in 1886. [Horowhenua Commission, pages 27, 28, 29, question 68 and following : purport of questions explained to witness.] I meant that there was only one committee—the Muaupoko alone; but they met on several days. I offered No. 14 to Ngatiraukawa myself. It was only mentioned in Mangakahia's Court. My proposal to cut off No. 14 was discussed by the people outside. The Ngatiraukawa objected to it. [Horowhenua Commission, page 190, question 195, read out.] That is correct, it is substantially what I say now ; as I understand it, some parts of that evidence refer to what took place in 1890. Pomare and Heni came to me to object to No. 14. That was the only conversation with them about it at that time. It was mentioned again in Mangakahia's Court when McDonald made the application for some other pieces. I told the Court then that I had cut off a piece of 1,200 acres for the descendants of Whatanui at Ohau, but that they had refused it. There was only one talk about No. 14 with Pomare outside the Court. As I have stated before, I arranged to cut off No. 14 for descendants of Whatanui in Mangakahia's Court, but they objected to it. It was only indicated to the descendants of Whatanui that their