G. —2

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Horowhenua. He refers to us and consults us, because we have rights in the land. The residential Muaupoko agreed to give Kemp No. 14 to carry out Taueki's promise to Whatanui. There were many present, I cannot remember them all, when we decided to set apart the 1,200 acres. It was done by the tribe, not by individuals. You want me to name one or two, but they would not represent a tribe. The Ngatiraukawa refused the first block, and we gave them the choice of another block, which they accepted. The second block was within the boundaries of what afterwards became No. 11. I know of none who objected. Re-examined by Sir W. Buller. [Horowhenua Commission, page 93, questions 320, 321, 322, read:] Witness : Those replies explain the question and answer read to me by Mr. Stevens. Sir W. Buller quoted from notes to show that witness's evidence appeared inconsistent on certain points, and asked to explain his meaning. Witness: As I have already related, we discussed the subdivisions inland. Kemp and McDonald were negotiating about the 1,200 acres. Kemp asked us to give some land to the descendants of Whatanui. We, the tribe, consented. Kemp then said the land should be on the Ohau side. Kemp said this to us outside the Court, at our kainga. We all consented. Then the parcel for the railway was mentioned. The 1,200 acres at Ohau was then dealt with in Mangakahia's Court, as I have already stated. The locality was objected to. It was taken into Court and ordered. Objectors were challenged. None appeared. The 1,200 acres at Ohau having been refused, the alternative section at Raumatangi was dealt with by the Court. By "no objectors " I mean that the Muaupoko did not object. To Court: Three divisions were taken into Mangakahia's Court. The objection to the 1,200 acres at Ohau was by Pomare and Heni Kipa. ISlicholson was present. He only asked to see the position. Ido not remember his objecting. When the two objected I do not know what took place exactly, but the 1,200 acres at Raumatangi was settled I think. I know that Lewis, Kemp, and McDonald discussed the question of the 1,200 acres afterwards. I cannot say positively whether the matter was settled definitely on that day. I take it that it was not, as Pomare and Heni Kipa objected. To Sir W. Buller : I said that the 1,200 acres finally settled by Mr. Lewis was at Raumatangi. I say so now. The descendants of Te Whatanui never attended any of our meetings at Palmerston. Ru Reweti acted as go-between ; between the Ngatiraukawa and ourselves at Palmerston. It was in the Court that Kemp said he would give 1,200 acres to the descendants of Whatanui. The Court adjourned till the 6th instant.

Saturday, 6th March, 1897. The Court opened at 10 a.m. Present: The same. No. 1, Horowhenua No. 14, resumed. Eangimairehau examined by the Assessor. Witness : Kawana Hunia was not put on the hills, his share was allotted down here. I have said that three divisions were brought before Mangakahia's Court—(l) The railway; (2) the township ; (3) the 1,200 acres for descendants of Whatanui. Ido not know whether orders were finally made by Mangakahia's Court; McDonald did not tell us. I heard McDonald asking for the orders. He and Kemp might know whether they were made. McDonald asked for the orders in Mangakahia's Court. The first proposal was to give the descendants of Whatanui the 1,200 acres at Ohau. It was a verbal proposal. I heard Judge Wilson give his evidence in this Court. I think I am more nearly correct than Judge Wilson in saying I do not know whether an order wa3 made or not. I think it was at Kahui's Court that Pomare and Heni Kipa objected—l made a mistake; I meant to say Mangakahia's. I do not remember Lewis withdrawing the question of the 1,200 acres from the first Court as stated by Judge Wilson. The whole block came before the Court on the Ist December, 1886. The descendants of Whatanui themselves asked that their 1,200 acres should be located by the 100 acres at Eaumatangi, and it was agreed to. I do not know what took place between them and Lewis. Notwithstanding the minute of the Court that Nicholson objected, I say that I saw Pomare and Heni Kipa object. Nicholson's relatives are the descendants of Whatanui who have lived permanently at Horowhenua. Pomare did not come here till 1882. Waretini Ma told Pomare and Heni Kipa that the Ohau land was stony. Waretini was at the Court in 1886. I cannot say why Waretini, who had a knowledge of the land, should not have himself objected. I remember the Judge telling Nicholson that he was not in the title. I think Nicholson had asked to see the order, or some other paper. Ido not know why Judge Wilson did not tell Heni Kipa and Pomare that they had no right to object. They are not in the title. Ido not know who the land on the railway was awarded to. We agreed outside the Court to give it to Taitoko (Kemp). We knew nothing of the Eailway Company. McDonald was present when the matter was discussed and arranged. I understood that Kemp was to hold the land as a trustee ; but it appears now that I was wrong. I have lately heard that the land has been conveyed to the Railway Company. Ido not know who has the money for the land. This was the first division allotted to Kemp. The 4,000-acre block for the township was fully discussed by Muaupoko. It was decided that this block should be awarded to Kemp for sale to the Government. It was given to him to be sold. He was not a kaitiaki in the sense that he was to hold the land. The question of the disposal of the money was not discussed at the time. I did not understand that the land was for Kemp himself. It was handed over to him to be sold to the Government in accordance with our decision. Kemp asked us to sell a portion of our land, and said that