113

G.—2

638. What was the disturbance between Nicholson and Matene, and your brother?— The disturbance was that Whatanui and my father lived very close together. He was the main cause of my father living there on the block. After his death, this woman came to put in a claim to all his belongings, and in doing so, I will not say only on her own behalf as a Native but probably as well for her husband, she started to pull down our fences all round our door on the land we were leasing from Te Whatanui. 639. Did Nicholson himself take part in the disputes ?—He was generally in the back ground ; he did not take active part. 640. Did ha never come and dispute with your father or mother in connection with the matter? —I believe he did. I remember on one occasion just at that time, when I think my father was in Otaki, I think Nicholson was there also ; and, if I remember right, I think Nicholson knew it, and on his way home from Otaki he called in at my mother's house, knowing that my father was away, and his temper being riled he started at my mother, bullying us to cease occupation there, saying he would soon take possession himself, and saying what he was going to do. He heard that my father had been saying something about his wife not having any right there, and he made the remark to my mother that, if he had been present when the remark was made, he would have given my father as good a horsewhipping as ever he got. My father had returned before him and heard all this, and when it came to this remark he asked him to wait five minutes till he put his trousers on; but when my father came out he had disappeared. Mrs. Nicholson had pulled down the fencing and threatened to burn the house down. 641. Did your father write to any one about it? —I should say he did. But I was young at the time, and I did not take notice of any writing. I cannot say whether there was any correspondence between my father and any person outside. I have heard from him about correspondence. 642. Can you mention any person living away that he corresponded with about the block ? —I have heard him mention Pomare, who was not here at the time. 643. Do you remember the time when Watene's house was burned down, in 1871 ?—I do. 644. Whereabouts was that house ? —I would not be quite certain, but I think two or three were burned down at the time. There was one burned at a place called Kotoroa; there were others burned at M-ahiwinui and Eakauhamama. Ido not remember anything about the latter, except there were fishing buildings alongside a lake where they used to catch eels. 645. They were not in permanent occupation ?—Not at this time; there were fishing-houses and eel-nets. 646. Will you point out on the map where these fishing-houses were ? —Yes. 647. You know that there were permanent houses of Te Whatanui at Baumatangi ?—Yes ; in the olden days there were. 648. What do you mean by the olden days? About what year would they cease to be permanently occupied?— About 1869, or even before that. lam confining myself to one spot. The name Eaumatanga is convenient to one small spot where the eel-weirs were; the 100 acres derives its name from that, but I suppose there are one hundred names within that at present. 649. Within that 100 acres were there permanent occupations right up to 1873 ? —I will not say that they lived on it; but they had their burial-places there, and lived a few chains off. 650. Did they live closer to the river? —Yes. 651. Had they permanent residences there? —Yes. 652. Up to 1869, who were the actual residents there ? —Principally those I have mentioned—Te Hitau and her family, Te Wiiti and Te Whatanui. Up to the death of the old man he lived alone ; it was after his death that these other people came. 653. Prior to that did you say they had been living off the block?— Yes. 654. This really was their first permanent occupation of the block ?—Yes ; although he was a great chief, the old man resided alone in this particular spot. 655. None of these houses of which you have spoken are within the 1,200 acres cut off, are they ?—No. 656. Are any of the places that Hitau and those people occupied subsequently to 1869 within this block of 1,200 acres?—l do not think so. 657. Mr. Morison.] How old are you? —I am getting on for forty-six. 658. You and Neville Nicholson were small boys together? —I believe so. 659. On this block?— Off and on. 660. That would be early in the sixties ? —Yes. 661. You are aware that Neville Nicholson is descended from a full sister of the original Te Whatanui? —I believe so. 662. Asa matter of fact, the original Te Whatanui lived on this land?— Yes; I remember him. 663. Do you remember that the original Hitau lived with him ?—Yes. 664. She was Neville Nicholson's grandmother?— Yes. 665. Hitau and, at the same time, Caroline also lived on this block when you were quite young? —I would not be quite certain of that. 666. You admit you spent your younger days with Neville Nicholson; was not he there with his brother?— Yes, off and on. 666 a. Because she had land in Manawatu, and sometimes she lived in this place and sometimes on that block?— She used to visit it; her permanent place of abode was near the Manawatu. 667. Was not the reason that they lived for a time near the Manawatu this : that Nicholson, the husband of Caroline, leased a sheep-run there ?—He did have a sheep-run there. 668. And Caroline left the place where her mother Hitau was living, and went with Nicholson to a sheep-run near Manawatu ?—I suppose she did. 669. And came back, from time to time, to visit her relations? —Yes. 15— G. 2.