107

G.—2

362. In 1874 the troubles between Muaupoko and Ngatiraukawa were arranged and settled by Sir D. McLean and Kemp, were they not ?—Yes. 363. Was not all that Kemp arranged after 1874 about these trouble agreed to by you and the Muaupoko ?—Yes. 364. You have assented now to what Kemp did on that occasion for Muaupoko. Did you assent to what Kemp and McLean did on that occasion ?—Yes. Tβ Bangi Maibehau recalled. 375. Mr. McDonald.] You say that Kemp and Warena were trustees in No. 11 ?—Yes; I said that they were the caretakers. 366. You know there were 143 persons registered at Foxton in 1873 ?—Yes. 367. And there were 44 persons inadvertently omitted? —Yes; that would make altogether 187 persons ?—Yes. 368. Do you wish the Commission to understand that Kemp and Warena were caretakers for all these persons ?—We did not consent to Warena being a caretaker ; we only assented to Kemp. 369. If Warena was not a caretaker, what was he ?—Kemp put him in to be a co-trustee with himself, but it was not what the tribe consented to. 370. Then Kemp alone is the person you look to as a trustee ?—Yes ; down to the present time. 371. So Kemp is a trustee for all these 187 persons? —He has divided these people and given them land elsewhere. 372. It is for Kemp to say who was to be in this block ?—Yes ; those that he is pleased to put in, will be in. 373. And that will content you?— Where will be the harm? I will not be against it. 374. You will be content with what Kemp gives you?— Yes ; I shall have some land then. 375. Has Kemp promised you some land there? —It is now under the European law; it is not divided, and until it is divided it will not be apportioned out. 376. It is for Kemp to divide it ?—Yes; he will divide it and give each person his own portion. 377. Did you hear that certain parts of Block 2 were to be returned to Muaupoko ? —Yes ; according to what you two said, but when we got to Wellington, we found it was not so. 378. Do you mean by " you two " myself and Kemp ?—Yes ; according to what we had been told by you we were to receive it. 379. Have you got those portions ?—No; as I said before, the Government have seized it. 380. Who told you that it was the Government ?—Kemp told us that it was the fruit of the Government, and we understand that it was so. 381. Did I ever tell you so?—No ; we were quarrelling with you at the time. 382. Why were you quarrelling with me?— You had acted deceitfully about this matter, and so we got no land. 383. Who told you that ? —My own intelligence. You never came back and told us that the thing now wore a different aspect. 384. You got 105 acres in No. 3, did you not ?—Yes ; but it was only 104 acres odd. 385. Have you leased that ?—Yes ; I have leased it to Hector McDonald. 386. You have got the rent ?—Yes. 387. Was anything stopped out of your rent for the survey ?—Yes. 388. Did not I tell yon at Palmerston in 1886 that the money for No. 2 would pay for all these surveys?—lf you had told me I should have recollected it; I do not forget. 389. Mr. Baldwin.] It was left to Kemp entirely to settle up No. 9 ?—Yes ; and the other land also. 390. It was entirely in his discretion who he put into the land ?—Yes. 391. Mr. Morison.] You know a burial-place called Otawhaowhao ?—Yes. 392. Is it not looked upon as belonging to Ngatihuia ?—Yes. 393. And the Muaupoko, I understand, would have no objection to the Ngatihuia having that cut off for them? —No ; they would not consent to that. 394. Has not Kemp agreed that they should have that piece ?—I have never heard. 395. But if he does consent, you will not object ?—Yes ; I will object. 396. Have the Ngatihuia got eel-weirs all over the lagoons on the north side of this block ?— They were our eel-weirs that were up there ; but the lagoons have all dried up. 397. Did not Ngatihuia use them?— They went to another place to get them. 398. What were the names of the places they had of their own ?—I could not tell you. 399. Was Parekawau one of those places ? —That is a burial-place. 400. And Ngakawau and Ngakawanui ?—No; the latter belongs to Kemp. 401. But used not the Ngatihini to get eels there ? —No. 402. Did they not get them at Ohita?—No; those are close to our settlements. 403. Did they not get eels at Whaingaio ?—No; they did not; they went on the other side of Kopuapangapanga to get eels. 404. Did they not get eels at Kaimakariri?—-No; that was our place; but they got them at Whareotaki. 405. If you admit that this burial-place belongs to Ngatihuia, why will you not agree that they should have it ?—lt was our burial-ground, and only lately the Ngatihuia buried some people there. Keebhi Tomu examined. 406. Sir W. Butter.~\ To what tribe do you belong ?—Muaupoko. 407. Where do you live ?—At Horowhenua. 408. Where were you born ?—At Horowhenua. 409. Have you lived there all your life ?—Yes; since I was born.