G.—2

98

Monday, 16th Maech, 1896. Te Eangi Maibehau's examination continued. 1. Mr. Stevens.] Now, with reference to No. 14 : you say that No. 9 was given to the descendants of Te Whatanui? —Yes. 2. It was cut off from No. 11—it was all one block in the first instance?— Yes; No. 14 was originally part of No. 11, but was cut off and called No. 14. It was cut off for Te Whatanui, but they would not accept it. They were not satisfied with it. 3. Then what became of it ?—They accepted No. 9, in place of it, as the other block was some distance from their settlements. 4. How was No. 14 dealt with after it was refused by them ?—lt was taken by Kemp. 5. Supposing that the Whatanui had accepted No. 14 in the first instance?—lf they had accepted it, it would have been theirs. 6. Was there any reason why they should cut off another 1,200 acres and make it a present to Kemp, if No. 14 had been accepted in the first instance ? —lf the Whatanui had accepted the first piece, there would have been no occasion to cut off another piece. 7. If there had been only one block cut off—supposing No. 9 had not been cut off at all—to whom would it have belonged now ?—lt belonged to Kemp. 8. With regard to the moneys paid by Kemp for survey, that was part of the money out of the block sold for the township?— Yes. 9. Can you give any idea of how much money he paid for surveys ?—I do not know ; and Ido not know from whom I heard that Kemp paid money from this block for survey. 10. Was that statement made at a meeting, or did some individual tell you, or did Kemp himself tell you? —I heard it in a desultory way. 11. Therefore, your statement that Kemp paid money for survey may or may not be true ?— What I said on Saturday, I say now ; I heard that he had paid some part of the surveys from the money derived from that land. 12. J)o you think it is true that he did ? —My answer is : I did not see the money paid with my eyes, but I heard it had been paid. 13. How much was the money paid to Bell ? —I was in Wellington at the time and they had a dispute over it. Bell asked for £600 for his work, and after they had a considerable dispute, Kemp gave him £500. 14. Did you not say, on Saturday, he gave him £700 ?—lt was £700 in the first instance ; Bell asked for £700 in the first instance. 15. Did you mention £500 or £600 on Saturday?—l mentioned £500, £600, and £700 on Saturday. 16. You said £700 was paid to Bell, but you did not mention £500 or £600 ? —I did not mention £500 or £600 on Saturday. It is in consequence of your questions to-day I mentioned it; but I did not mention it on Saturday. 17. Have you not done an injustice by saying on Saturday, £700, and to-day £500? —The question was not put to me; what I say now is, that Bell asked for £700. 18. Did you say that Bell received £700 just for two words ? Was it £700 or £500 he received ?— It was £700. 19. The Chairman.] Where was it paid ?—ln Wellington. 20. Mr. Fraser.] Have you taken a personal interest in this case since it was first before the Court ? Since the partition in 1886, have you looked after your own interest or left it entirely to Kemp?—All that Kemp did was to get the land subdivided. 21. When did you first learn that you were not in the list of any divisions ?—I heard it in 1886 ; I heard that my name was not in the list of names in the block. It was Wirihana who said so. 22. Did you take any steps to get your name included ?—No. 22a. Did you consider the position of Kemp in No. 11 the same as in No. 16 ?—Yes ; Kemp was placed as caretaker for the three blocks. 23. Were you in the Court in 1886 when these orders were made?— Yes; I was there when the blocks were divided. 23a. Were you inside or outside the Court ?—I was in the Court all the time with Hoani. 24. Were you in the Court when the order for No. 11 was made?— Yes; we all assented then to Kemp's name being put in. 25. Can you explain this discrepancy : You were asked this question, " Then you were not in the Court when the order was made"? and you answered, "No "?—What I said was that I was not in the Court at the time the list of names was changed so as to put in the two names. I was not in the Court to understand that the block was given solely to Kemp and Hunia. 26. When, or from whom, did you first hear that Kemp had mortgaged No. 14 to Sir Walter Buller ?—I heard it from the people, and from Sir Walter Buller. 27. That was after the mortgage had been executed ?—When I heard of it, the mortgage had been completed. 28. Do you know of any member of the Muaupoko Tribe who was informed of the mortgage before it was executed ?—I do not know what they heard ; I only know what I heard myself. 29. You remember when the Minister and some members of Parliament came on to the block to see the land, re the sale by Warena ? —I do not know anything about that; the Muaupoko as a whole did not see them. 30. Do you know what Natives were present when they came ? —I heard it said that Hoani Puihi was there. We, the Muaupoko, did not hear of it. 31. Subsequent to the sale, you with others, objected to the survey, did you not ?—Yes. 32. Because you did not approve of the line that it was taking?—No; I did not want that land sold. We objected to the survey, because we objected to the piece that was being sold.