Gk—2

70

309. You could not have thought that the Government were putting it off for a year on account of survey ?—No. 310. But you did not apply for it till the occasion you speak of ? —I have no recollection of speaking to the Government after the signing of the deed. It must have been months, I should think, between the time when I spoke to the Minister and the time the £2,000 came. 311. You were quite satisfied with the reason given by the Government for not paying the money?—l was l'eady to take the money any time. 312. If you did not think it a reasonable excuse, you would have gone and insisted on getting the money ?—Yes ; no doubt I would. 313. Because the reason assigned was a fair one, you allowed the thing to rest for a time? — Yes. 314. Mr. Morison."] When did you first know this block?—ln 1857. 315. Were you at all familiar with the occupation of it ?—I was not very familiar with the occupation of the block till from 1863 to 1870. I was then a great deal on the coast, my business being to travel with cattle and sheep, and this was one of my staying places, at the mouth of the stream. 316. Who were living to the south of the stream during the time with regard to which you speak ? —The Ngatiraukawa. 317. Were there any Muaupoke kaingas at all south of the stream ?—I do not think so ; there might have been; they were principally on the north side. 318. You looked upon it as being occupied by the Ngatiraukawa?—Yes. 319. Who were the principal people, so far as you can recollect, who occupied south of the stream ? —I remember one very well; they used to call him Tommy Whatanui. There were several Whatanui. 320. Anybody else ? —I remember a sister of Tauteka was married at Eangikiwinui. I forget her name. 321. Can you say whether that was Te Whiu ?—I think so; I cannot say positively. There were three sisters, two of them I knew very well. Tauteka, who lived most of the time at Otaki, was the wife of Matene Te Whiwhi. Then there was Caroline Nicholson's mother, who lived at the north of this block. 322. Who was she living with particularly ? —1 cannot say. There used to be a number of them where the Ngatiraukawa lived ; some times you found only a few of them, and some times twenty or thirty. 323. Do you know if there was a small settlement at the small lake at all ?—There was a small whare or two, and eel-fishing places. 324. Who used them, so far as you know ?—During the period I am speaking of, up till 1870, I was constantly up and down ; I think the Ngatiraukawa occupied this land, and others on the other side. 325. No one has heard this block more discussed than yourself by the Natives. Have you heard any reason assigned for the setting apart of 1,200 acres to the decendants of Te Whatanui ?—After the sitting of the Court in 1873, I understand there was a great deal of dissatisfaction by the Ngatiraukawa, and talking of fighting, and so on, and I think an arrangement was made between Sir Donald McLean and Kemp, and perhaps Hunia, to settle up matters. 326. Do you know of any disturbance that took place at all?—I heard all about the burning of the whares and the taking of Hunia to Wellington, and so on. 327. Did you hear whether the giving of the land was part of the same transaction, and done at the same time ? —I understood that it was ; that was the common talk amongst the Natives, so far as I have heard. 328. Have you heard it discussed amongst them ?—Yes. 329. The Chairman. .] Do you know if there were squabbles amongst these people long before 1873? —Yes; there were several meetings between 1860 and 1870 and 1871. 330. Mr. McDonald.} You were under the impression that, when I brought you a proposal purporting to be a proposal from Kemp to give Warena 1,000 acres in No. 11 as his share, you had employed me as interpreter for Barnicoat at that time : are you quite sure you are right ?—I am not quite sure I am right, because I did not keep any data ; but I know during the Court you were employed. 331. You had not gone to the Court then ? —No ; but we were waiting for the Court to open. 332. Did you require an interpreter for Barnicoat before the case came on ?—No; I do not think so. 333. Was it not when the Court opened you employed me?—l think that is very likely. 334. I understand this matter of 8,000 acres for the tribe cropped up several times in the course of the negotiations, both before and after the petition ?—Yes. 335. You said you supposed that was for the resident Ngatipariri?—Yes. 336. Did you furnish the Government, or Kemp, or the Court, or anybody with a list of those persons to whom you proposed that Warena's share of the 8,000 acres should be given?—ln company with Warena, I handed in a list that Warena prepared to Mr. Cadman. 337. Have you any copy of it ?—No. 338. Can it be got at in any way?—l should think it is there. It was in his private room at the Parliamentary Buildings. It was not then put as 8,000 acres, and we proposed to keep the 3,500 acres. 339. Was any list ever prepared after the previous proposal that 8,000 acres should be given ?— Not that I am aware of. 340. You are still acting as attorney for Warena. In case the list you refer to cannot be obtained, will he furnish the Commission with a list of persons to whom Warena proposed to give