61

G.—2

42. Will you mention any people whom you told ?—Himiona Kowhai, Hoani Puihi, and my elder women relatives. 43. Was there any word of disapproval from them ?—No; they never found fault. 44. Can you tell of your own knowledge what this money was used for ? How it was disposed of ? For what purpose ?—The money that was received was £2,000 ;it was directed towards paying the agents and lawyers, and other matters connected with Horowhenua. 45. The money was spent for debts connected with Horowhenua?—Yes; for the troubles that had occurred about Horowhenua. I think the moneys I spent in that way amount to about £6,000, including the £2,000. 46. The Chairman.'] Why did the Court award the land to Muaupoko in the first instance? Was it through ancestry, or occupation, or why ?—Because they were residing there. 47. It was only occupation, not ancestry ?—I think not; there were five tribes asked for it. 48. Mr. Stevens.] —You said, in reply to Mr. McDonald, that no objection was made to giving Kemp the 800 acres which were transferred to Mr. Sievewright?—Yes. 49. That was for the purpose of liquidating a debt owing by Kemp to Sievewright ?—Yes ; it was given to pay £3,000 he owed to Sievewright. 50. How did Kemp become indebted to Sievewright for that £3,000 ? Was it in connection with Horowhenua ?—No; it was for expenses connected with the trouble that occurred at Wanganui when he was disputing with the Government. 51. Was it in connection with Wanganui or Murimutu ?—Eangipo and Murimutu. 52. You said the Court awarded No. 2 to Kemp? —Yes; that was according to what the committee decided. 53. The impression on my mind was that the Court had awarded this block to Kemp in his own right, without the consent of the people; did the people consent to that ? —Yes ; the tribe consented to let Kemp have that block under certain conditions. 54. Conditions written in a document ?—Yes. 55. The Chairman.] Was that document brought to the notice of the Court?—l do not know. I know what was in the document. Petbe Bartholomew examined. 56. Sμ , W. Butter.] You are a sawmill proprietor living at Levin?— Yes. 57. You have had dealings with Major Kemp from time to time in respect of timber growing on block ? —Yes; and in respect of flax. 58. Will you give a brief account of your first transaction with Kemp in regard to timber?—lt was about 1882 or 1883. I gave him £500 for a block of timber in No. 3. 59. What was the nature of the arrangement you made ?—I paid him 10s. an acre for the timber on it, for the right to cut all the timber on 1000 acres. 60. Were you restricted to time ?—Yes ; I had twelve years. 61. Was your arrangement with Kemp alone ? —On this block it was with Kemp alone. 62. Who interpreted or acted for you?— Mr. Hartley. 63. How much did you pay ?—£soo; the whole amount in advance. 64. Did you afterwards get an agreement drawn up by Mr. Woon in respect of the same?— Yes ; he did the work, and Hartley acted as interpreter. 65. You handed me a memorandum in Woon's writing dated the 26th February, 1889. Does that relate to it? —That is in respect to Block 11. 66. You have been cutting on the land? —Yes ; I cut it out some time ago. 67. Were you interfered with at all by any member of Muaupoko while cutting there?—Wirihana came down once, about twelve months after I commenced cutting. 68. For the first twelve months there was no interference?— No. 69. But after twelve months Wirihana came ? —Yes; he cut one of the tram rails through. 70. Did he not speak to you first ?—No ; I did not see him. He sent a Native, some Natives cut through one of the rails. He did not interfere with me afterwards; I went on cutting. 71. Why do you mention Wirihana's name? —He came with the Natives, I believe, but I did not see him. 72. Your cutting then went on uninterruptedly up to the finish?— Yes. 73. What was your next transaction with Kemp ?—lt was for 1000 acres in No. 11. I had a wire from Wirihana. 74. Is this the telegram : " 9th February, 1889, from Wanganui. To Bartholomew and Dunne, Levin, via Palmerston North. Major Kemp would like to see you about a new portion of the Horowhenua Bush on Tuesday next, in Wanganui. You will meet me at Turakina.—Wieihana Hunia " ?—Yes. 75. What did you do in consequence of this telegram ?—I could not get away on that day, but the day following I went to Wanganui and arranged with Kemp. 76. Did you see Wirihana on your way?—No; I missed him, as I did not have time to reply. 77. Was any arrangement come to between yourself and Kemp?—Yes ; I made an agreement with him for twelve years in respect of 1,000 acres in No. 11. 78. On which side of the Block 11 in respect to the Hokeio Stream?—On the western side of the railway, on the south side of the stream. 79. Who interpreted for you on that occasion?— Both Hartley and Woon. 80. Was the arrangement reduced to writing by Woon ?—Yes. [Agreement produced, marked D]. 81. You paid £500, as stated in the agreement ? — Yes. 82. Did you commence cutting at once?— Not, for some time after. 83. Bat you did cut there ? —Yes ; and am cutting still.