59

G.—2

357. Did not Kemp tell the Muaupoko and you what he intended to do with this 1,200 acres ? —Yes ; he did tell us. 358. What did he say?—He said, "I want to fulfill the word I spoke to Watene about the land that McLean asked me to give him to give to the descendants of Te Whatanui." Then they were going to give them Papaitonga, and no one objected. 359. Did you not hear, after the year 1873, about the assent that Kemp gave to Ngatihuia that they should have some land in the upper part of the block ?—Yes ; I heard of that. I heard of it in 1886, when the Court sat and divided the land. I heard of it from Kemp. 360. What did Kemp say?—lt was when we were arranging about the burial-ground where my ancestor, Kaewa, was buried, so that it should be kept divided from the 1,200 acres in Block 9. They arranged about the burial-grouud at Komakorau. I heard them mention about what the Ngatihuia said about their burial-place. Hone Taipua and Tamihana te Hoia spoke about it. I heard Kemp give his assent to that. I think he assented to give them 50 or 100 acres. 361. Did the Muaupoko make any objection to this?—l never heard of any; I never made any personal objection. 362. The Chairman.] Which 100 acres was that ?—ln the north-west corner of No. 11. 363. Did you not hear of the reserve to be given to Ngatiraukawa by McLean, and Kemp agreed to it ? —No. 364. Do you know of any settlement near Waiwiri ?—When Te Eoira was alive he used to live there, and his children live there now, and Te Puke and his father. They are dead, and their children are living there now. 365. Did you ever see Matene te Whiwhi living there?— No. 366. Mr. Davis.] Do you think that it is you or Kemp the Commission should question about the division of No. 9 when it was divided and given to the descendants of Whata.nui?—Kemp's knowledge of the matter is the same as mine, and mine is the same as Kemp's ; but, if you ask who is going to tell a straight story, I say I am telling it. 367. What you know about it is what you have heard?—l heard it certainly; but I heard what Kemp said. 368. Kemp, who divided the land himself, must know what he has done ?—Yes; but Kemp had acted differently to what was supposed. 369. Did you go to Wellington at the time Kemp went, when this arrangement was arrived at between him and McLean ? —No; but my father was there. 370. Sir W. Butter.] You stated, in reply to Mr. McDonald, that Kemp, as you understand the matter, was left out of No. 3 when 105 acres were alloted to each member of the tribe, because he had already got enough alloted to him in other blocks —2 and 10 ?—That is what I think. 371. How do you explain that you afterwards put him in with your brother as an owner in the 1,500 acres in No. 11 ?—lf I had not done that it would have been making more of Warena than of Kemp, and other people had agreed to pat in Kemp, so I agreed to it. I could not object to what they had already done.

Friday, 13th March, 1896. Wibihana Hunia's examination continued. 1. Mr. Fraser.] Do you know a Native named Te Eangi Mairehau ?—Yes. 2. He was one of those in the original order of the Court ?—Yes. 3. Can you say how it is that his name was not in the division in the Court of 1886? Is it not a mistake ?—I heard there was one person with two names. 4. The name " Eangi Eurupuni " is put twice in No. 3 : is not that the position?— Yes. 5. And it was in that division that Te Eangi Mairehau should be ?—Yes; I heard that was so. It was an error ; they put in the former twice, instead of the latter. 6. You were speaking yesterday of the occupation of your elders : have you ever occupied this block ?—Yes. 7. When did you first occupy it ? Do you know from your own knowledge ?—At the time when my father's brother died, I was born, and I was at the breast at the time that I occupied the land. 8. When did you come on the land ?—When I was at my mother's breast; my Muaupoko relatives brought me down here. 9. Who was it brought you on to this block?—Himiona te Hopu, Hanita Kowhai. and Te Eangi Eurupuni, and others who were my elders. I was brought here to be brought up on this land, in place of my uncle who had died ; he is buried here. 10. You said that Warena asked Kemp for No. 14, to lease?— Yes. 11. How do you know that?—l told him and Donald Fraser to go to Kemp to ask him for it. 12. Have you ever heard Kemp say that Warena asked him for it?—l heard Kemp say so in Court. 13. Did he say so before the Commission?— Yes; he mentioned that Warena and Donald Fraser came to him about this piece of land. 14. At the Court of 1886 was this the position: that Section 14 was first set aside for Te Whatanui ? —Yes. 15. Then there was this difference of opinion between certain of the Whatanui and the Muaupoko as to locality ?—Yes. 16. And Subdivision 9 was cut out? —Yes. 17. And both were put in Kemp's name? —Yes; and then they were to choose the block of land that they wished.