G.—2

56

251. Do you remember my giving Muaupoko very distinct warnings as to what the effect of the orders in the Native Land Court would be ?—Yes; I heard you talking to Muaupoko. 252. Do you remember my explaining fully to Muaupoko then assembled the difference between the certificate of title under the Act of 1867 by which this block was held up to that time, and the certificate of title which would be issued in the orders to be made by that Court ?—Yes ; I heard you explaining that. 253. Were those explanations fully given to the Muaupoko before they began to make a partition of the block ?—lt was before. 254. And then Muaupoko proceeded to partition the block?— Yes. 255. Do you remember that Muaupoko had before them a tracing of the block ?—Yes; Mr. Palmerston brought a map. 256. Partition 1 was the railway line? —Yes. 257. To whom was that awarded ? —To Kemp. 258. Was it stated, then, the purpose for which it was awarded to Kemp?—No ; they let it go to Kemp without reserve or explanation. 259. And there has never been any question raised about it since ?—No ; I never heard anything about it since in or out of Court. 260. Could Kemp dispose of the land and put the price into his own pocket ?—Yes ; it would have been Kemp's money, because we had given the land to Kemp for himself, and I never heard any word to the contrary. 261. Do you know what Kemp did with this land?—He let the railway company have it. 262. Do you know whether he got anything for it ?—I do not know. Kemp, not as payment for the land but as a complimentary return for his gift, got fifteen shares in the railway. 262 a. Have you any claim on those shares?— No. 263. In Block 2 there were 4,000 acres : in whom was this vested?—ln Kemp's name. 264. Did you hear any conditions stated at those outside meetings before the Court upon which it was vested in Kemp? —Yes; I heard them at Mr. Palmerston's place, because the Muaupoko were residing there. 265. Did you fully believe those conditions would be strictly fulfilled by Kemp ? —Yes ; that was what we all thought. 266. What were those conditions ?—The first condition was that one quarter-acre section in every ten was to be kept, and nine sold ; the second condition was about a schoolhouse ; the third was that they were to have a large space of ground for a park, similar to Palmerston, in the centre of the township; the fourth condition was that there was to be a site for a Courthouse ; the fifth was about the money. I have told you before what was to be done with the money. 267. What children were to go to this school?— The school was to be for Native and European children alike. I think 10 acres were to be set apart for the school. 268. What was the money to be used for?—lt was to be used to liquidate the surveys on the land. 269. Have any of these conditions been fulfilled ?—No. 270. Supposing the Muaupoko had been told at that meeting that Kemp was to go and sell 4,000 acres for £6,000, and put the whole of the money into his pocket, would they have agreed to it ?—I should not have consented ; but perhaps some of his relatives among the Muaupoko might have; others would not, because this 4,000 acres, according to Native custom, was my land; it belonged only to me and my hapu. 271. You got 105 acres in No. 3 for yourself?— Yes. 272. There was also 105 acres allotted in the name of your father, then deceased?— Yes. 273. Successors have been appointed to your father in this 105 acres, have they not ?—Yes. 274. And this 105 acres has been leased by those successors, yourself among them ?—Yes; to Prouse Bros. 275. When Prouse came to pay this rent on the 105 acres, was there any demand made on you for the survey liens upon it ?—Yes. 276. You found, then, that the survey charges had not been paid?—We knew it before; but that refreshed our memories. All the blocks were in the same position. 277. Did you dispute the Government's title in No. 2—in the 4,000 acres?— Yes. 278. Did you make any claim on anybody for any part of the money received for it ?—Yes; it was not the fault of the Government. 279. Have you anything to say with respect to the tenths that were to be returned to you ?—■ The persons who benefited by those sections ought to pay for them. 280. To whom was Block 3 allotted ?—lt was divided amongst 106 persons. 281. Giving how much to each person ?—lO5 acres. 282. Has there ever been any dispute about that block?— Only the disturbances between myself and Kemp. 283. That was as to the allocation of the respective 105 acres ? It was no question as to the block as a whole ?—No ; that was all. 284. Do you know anything about Block 4 ?—Yes. 285. Was there ever any dispute of any sort about that ?—No. 236. Nor about 7 or 8?— No. 287. And there was no dispute about s?—No. 288. Do you know No. 13—the square foot?— There was no dispute about that. 289. For what purpose was No. 6 vested in Kemp ?—For the forty-four rersivaho, or outsiders. 290. There was never any dispute about Block 10—800 acres ?—No. 291. That was an absolute gift to Kemp ?—Kemp said to me, "lam in great trouble." I said, " Xes; I know what the trouble is— it is about Sievewright and Stout."