55

G.-2

218. You were satisfied with what he did?—No; when I saw he was wrongly working I objected, and would not abide by what he had done. 219. When you saw he was working wrongly in regard to this £6,000, did you talk to the tribe about it publicly ?—Yes. 220. At a meeting of the tribe ?—At some time when I came to Horowhenua. They used to hold meetings, and when they held them they asked me to attend; they called me to them. 221. Can you say the first meeting at which this matter was discussed between you and the people ?—I told them that the land had been sold for £6,000. The Government have got the land, and Kemp has got the money. So much money remains with the Government, and so much has been taken by him to Wanganui. I said, " This is the first block of Horowhenua that has been sold, and I think he ought to have had some thought for the people. He ought to take some of this money and give it to those people who came to his help; he ought to give the Ngatiapa so much and Bangitane so much, and to give so much, if only £10 or £100, to show there was some consideration for those tribes for what they had done." 222. Where did you make that speech ?—On the other side of the Horowhenua Lake. 223. When was this ?—Just before or after 1890. 224. W 7 as it a general muster of the tribe at which you made that speech, or only a few people ?—They had collected at a meeting, and sent for me to attend. 225. Who sent for you?— The Muaupoko; they held a meeting at one kainga, and after that at another kainga. 226. Was Kemp there ?—No. 227. Who were the principal chiefs at that meeting when you made that speech ?—They were all the same, no one was before another. 228. Can you mention a few names ?—Kerehi, Karaitiana, and Eaniera. I know others of the Muaupoko were there. 229. What did the tribe say when you made that speech ?—They listened attentively, and spoke very sadly about it. They said they thought that Kemp would have acted justly in the matter, because the tribe could do nothing. He had the lease, and had taken the money. They said if he had acted in this way it was no more than they could have expected; but for Kemp to do so was very terrible. 230. Who said that ? —The people who got up to answer me. 231. Can you mention one man who said that ?—Kerehi and Karaitiana. 232. Did Eaniera condemn Kemp?—Eaniera said something, but I forget what. 233. Did the tribe send any message to Kemp, so far as you know?— After the meeting had been held they sent word to Kemp. 235. Who took the word to Kemp?—l do not know for certain, but I heard that Hopa did. Kemp had spent the money, and that they must look to him. 236. You never spoke to Kemp about it yourself ?- —No ; I never spoke to Kemp about it. 237. Why did you not speak to Kemp, if he was plundering you of £6,000? —I knew it was no use talking to Kemp, for he was the kind of man that would not listen to anything that was said. There is another reason: if I had spoken first about it to the tribe, some would have gone and spoken secretly to him about it. 238. You were afraid to speak first to the tribe ? —I thought it best to leave the tribe alone, and let them find out what Kemp was doing themselves. 239. You did not invoke the law all this time ?—No. 240. Why not ?—lf I had gone to law about it, some of the tribe would have gone to Kemp secretly, and they would have used influence against us. Aleck McDonald has been directed by the Government to watch the interests of the Natives, and some have left and gone over to you. 241. Why did you not invoke the law when you found that wrong was being done by Kemp? —The tribe never asked me to do anything of the kind. I tried to care for myself, lest I be trampled in the mud by the actions of Kemp. I thought it was time to look out for myself, as in looking out for other people I might slip in the mud. 242. You ask the Commission to believe that you are a chief equal to Kemp, and are speaking for the tribe ?—I am a chief of a different stamp; lam a greater chief than Kemp. 243. Then why. did you not take him to task about this £6,000? —I thought he was a chief and an old man, and that he would act correctly. 244. When you found out he did not act correctly, why did you not then take him to task ?—I am working my own case now; let the Muaupoko, who would not attend to me, work their own case out. 245. Why did you not seek relief yourself all this time ?—I have been working hard for ten years past. 246. But you never said a word about this £6,000 before?—lf I was working alone about the £6,000, I was working for them too, so I would not do it; they would not pay expenses. 247. If you are a very important man, why was your name not put in with Kemp's in No. 11, instead of that of your younger brother ?—I put my younger brother in ;by my right of chieftainship in this land I allowed my brother to represent me, as I had no children. 248. That is why you put your younger brother in ?—lf I had had a child at that time I should have put myself in. 249. So you gave up your right to your brother ?—Yes; I gave him the right to represent my right. 250. Mr. McDonald.] Warena said yesterday that he was not present at the Court in 1886, but he was represented there by you, and that anything you did he considered was binding upon him now. Do you remember seeing me at the meeting before the Court sat ?—Yes ; I saw you there. You were interpreting for Kemp.