G.—2

32

196. Was it not also stated to Muaupoko that the money to be received from the 4,000 acres should go to pay the survey-fees for the partitioning of the block ?—I do not know. I know they had to be paid for. 197. Was it not distinctly upon the conditions stated to them that the tribe agreed to vest the land in you ?—Yes ; they saw that this township would increase the value of the adjacent lands, and that they also would get so many quarter-acre sections for themselves out of the township. 198. And these being the terms upon which Muaupoko agreed to vest the land in you, how did you feel justified in abandoning those conditions and selling it on other terms altogether ?—The only man who has disturbed the whole thing and brought about all the mischief and caused all this trouble is yourself. 199. This land was vested in you for the purpose of selling it on certain conditions? —There was nothing in connection with the township. The land was given to me, not because of the township ; but you have tried to bring all this back on my head now. 200. I ask you again now, why did you sell this land upon conditions other than those the Muaupoko had agreed to ?—This land was given me by Muaupoko to sell for them. 201. Did not they at the same time state the conditions upon which it was to be settled ?—■Nβ ; it is you that have suggested that course to them. 202. The Chairman.] Was that in 1886 ?—Yes, and after. 203. Has any action in the Court been brought against you by any other Native because of your alleged wrongful sale of the land?— No. 201. Mr. McDonald.] With regard to Block 14, Sir D. McLean suggested to you to set apart a piece of land in the Horowhenua Block for Pomare, did not Sir D. McLean put this question to you : " Had not something taken place between you and Pomare " ?—He asked me first of all i£ I would give a piece of land for Pomare. I said, " No." He said, " What has passed between you "? I know what Pomare had said to him. 205. You said that when this piece of land was cut off in the Court, somebody objected to it? —Yes ; the people did not wish to have it. They objected to this piece, because there were stones on it. The descendants of Te Whatanui objected to it. The land was given in consequence of what passed between him and Pomare; but the descendants objected to it. 206. You had an agreement with Sir D. McLean to give 1,200 acres to somebody: has that agreement been fulfilled? —Yes; I gave them one piece, and they objected to that, and. now they have got No. 9. 207. Having satisfied this agreement with regard to No. 9, are you prepared to transfer No. 14 to the tribe?— Before, you said this land did not belong to the tribe ; now, you say it does. 208. When did I say it did not belong to the tribe ?—You said before, by law they had no right there, and now you say it belongs to the tribe. 209. Since the agreement has been satisfied, are you prepared to transfer this Block 14 to the tribe ?—What business is it of yours to ask for the tribe? Why do you want to tell me what to do about the land ? The same thing happened about the 4,000 acres. You want to take every bit of my work. 210. Are you prepared to restore to the tribe No. 14, inasmuch as the agreement with Sir D. McLean has been satisfied by the cession of No. 9 ?—What tribe? Do you want to assume my chieftainship for yourself ? 211. Are you prepared to do this ? —No ; lam chief of this land. That is the answer I make to you. 212. When did it become yours?— It is a Crown grant, and no one has any objection to it. This is my land, and you are the chief of the objectors to it. Your work all through has been to collect all sorts of broken rubbish, nails, and things, and bring them to me to bite up. 213. The Chairman.] You are owner of this land because you are chief of the tribe, and you hold it as a trust, and as your own to do as you like with ? —Yes. 214. You say this land is yours because the Crown grant is in your name. You say your name was put in because you are chief. What I wish to know clearly is whether you say you are the owner of the land as trustee or in your own right, to do what you like with ?—I hold this land under Crown grant in my own name, but as trustee for those for whom I hold it whose names are somewhere in existence, not for the tribe as a whole. 215. Mr. McDonald.] Can you give the names of those persons for whom you hold the land as trustee?—Eaniera, Tamatea, Ngahina and descendants, Arahia. She "may have descendants, but I do not know who they are. 216. Then you do not hold this particular section for the residents of the Muaupoko, but for some others who are in the title, no doubt '! — They are very closely connected with me. This is my piece of land, and I chose to put them in. 217. When was any consent of the Muaupoko given to any such arrangement?—lt was just before the Court. 218. What Court ?—The Subdivision Court. 119. Was that Court told that this 1,200 acres were for these persons? You said it was only for Te Whatanui's descendants; that they rejected it, and it became yours?—l told you that before. 220. When did the Muaupoko, after Te Watanui's descendants rejected it, agree that the 1,200 acres were to be for you and those persons you have named ? Did the other friends of the owners agree at any time, and, if so, when ? —Muaupoko would have nothing to do with it. Some of the Muaupoko are on this piece of land, and others on other pieces. The men that I have in my mind have agreed to it. 221. The Chairman.] Did the rest of the tribe agree ?—I have heard no dissent at all. The only one who is causing dissent is Mr. McDonald.