H.—l4.

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of Native lands for his own benefit. I saw that nothing would be done. I thought there ought to be further inquiry. I then published this letter. I then wrote the letter of the 24th March. I merely received acknowledgment of letter.of 24th from Premier. I searched for myself. I doubted some of the things I heard reported. I found how the pencil memorandum was made about value ; that valuation was made in usual way ; in department I found those further transfers. I then sent letter to Premier and asked for inquiry, and published those letters. I was aware that if I waited till Parliament met I could have had those letters produced, and made any statements I liked without fear of actions for libel ; but holding the position I did, and being in the relation I was to Native-land matters, I believed it my duty to make the statements public. I have no more interest than any of the public. I never bought or leased Maori land. My object was to draw attention to what I considered a gross public scandal, in a Native Minister, while Minister, was purchasing Native land while absolutely Native land legislation was delayed and defeated. 269. Cross-examined by Sir B. Stout.] Is it not the fact that my proposal was that a Board should manage Native lands?— Yes. In the Act of 1886. Your evidence is in. I did not say your evidence was. 270. Is it not the fact you did not think of making charges against Smith and Cadman until Smith opposed you at Napier meeting ?—No ; that is not so. I became very suspicious before the end of the session. 271. Is is not the fact that you threatened Smith because he opposed you at the meeting— Land League meeting?—l cannot say I had any intention of attacking before that. Purpose first formed in my mind when I formed the circular, that was after the meeting. I cannot recollect when the meeting took place. It would be the 3rd March. 272. Did you start on the 4th March? Had you information on the 4th March?—l cannot say. I cannot say I was angry with Smith for attacking me at the meeting, and spoiling the meeting. I did say the opposition came from those who dabbled in Native lands, and had vested interests. No one seemed to have spoken but Mr. Smith at the meeting. I cannot say whether 1 searched on the 4th March. I gave instructions to have searches made. I was not aware that Duncan w T as searching. I gave instructions for searches. I believed at the meeting that Cadman and Smith were interested. I wrote this letter to the Hawke's Bay Herald on the 4th March as to Mr. Smith. I must have had searches made on the 4th March. Having heard Mr. Smith at the meeting, I then was satisfied there was some cause, and I had searches made. I did not know then about the Umutaoroa. I believed about the Tamaki; but that was not while Cadman was Minister. I acted for one of the owners in Tahoraiti and Tamaki. I did not know about Cadman. Transactions by Cadman in Tamaki during last session. I know all these matters could be discussed in the House. I sent it to every paper in the colony; all the papers. I got the whole register of the papers. The object was to show the necessity for Native-land legislation, and to show that the Native Minister and Whip were purchasing Native lands. I will not say the Natives ever saw Mr. Cadman put his name to deeds. There are six or seven Natives in Tahoraiti interested in Umutaoroa Block. The names are —In Tahoraiti No. 1 : Ihaia te Ngarara; five successors of Hokepa Paewai. There are others who are interested by relationship. Ihaia te Ngarara only person interested at time of passing the Tahoraiti Bill. As to Bose's appointment, I had reason to believe that he had been appointed by Cadman and Smith; that Eose was not fit person ; that there was great dissatisfaction at his appointment; and since the valuation I believed that the valuation was improper. He had all to do with Native land ; I had not. 273. Who told you that some of the land'had been valued at £8 ? —Mr. Walker, of the Herald. 274. W T ill you name one section that is valued at £8 an acre ?—I cannot mention any particular block ; there is a part of Oringi at £5. 275. Did you find out what Piripiri and Tamaki were valued at ? —I found Tahoraiti was valued at £3. I saw valuation of Tamaki; it was divided into different parts. The unimproved value of Tamaki —part of it —5,000 acres—valued at £6,250. Of that part Smith received £5,000 for a lease. When land is owned by Natives Ido not think same care taken. Before publishing, I did to some extent make myself acquainted with the valuation. I cannot say what rolls I examined. I cannot say I examined any rolls. I made myself acquainted with the main facts. The highest I can ascertain is £5 on Oringi. I did not know that the £5 included improvements. I was advised that the Umutaoroa were of greater value by Walker andßierre. I was not aware that Bierre. I found at the time value to be greater than Maungatoro Block. 276. Before making the charge as to Tahoraiti, that Native owners made it a condition, did you interview the Natives to see if it was. true? —I did not see Natives, but several people. 277. Who ? Name one? —I can hardly recollect any distinctly. I knew where Ihaia lived. 278. Why did you not see him about it, and ascertain the facts? —I believe I have it from some members of the Hawke's Bay Timber Company. I think, Mr. Jensen. 279. Is it not the fact that during the past you and Jensen went to see Ihaia?—Yes. I can tell you what I have said. 280. You were asked for apology ?—Yes. This is my reply : " I shall not withdraw or apologize. Use all diligence in proceeding." [Exhibit B, letter dated the 11th April, 1893, to Sainsbury and Logan.] The writ was served on the 15th April. 281. Are you aware that similar Bills as the Tahoraiti have been passed as public Bills?— Yes. Similar Bills in other sessions. I, as Chairman, brought up report that this was public Bill. I moved it should be referred back to Committee. House refused. I then supported the Bill. 282. You considered it a private Bill. Parliament disagreed with you. Did you not promise to get the Bill passed to remedy the defects in this case, and to urge the Government to get it through ?—I was not spoken to about a Bill. I promised to get Government to bring in a Bill to give the Native Land Court the power. Mr. Fraser told me the Umutaoroa Natives wanted it rectified. I was not aware that Ihaia te Ngarara was the only person interested. Hapuku's successors were interested. I knew that all but one had transferred their interests before the Bill was introduced—the Tahoraiti Bill.