H.—l4

12

238. Is that better, or worse, or equal to Umutoaroa Block ?—I know portion of that block; it is much of the same class. If anything part of Maharahara is inferior. It is clay hill of considerable area and poor. Price was reduced as to some of the deferred-payment settlers. I was not in the Commission. Large reductions were made to them when they represented they tendered under misapprehension. I know Mr. Cadman, Mr. Smith, and Mr. Eose. 239. Do you remember seeing Mr. Smith after the meeting at Danevirke on the Ist March last ? —I asked him some questions after the meeting at the Masonic Hotel. I understood that Smith and Cadman were selling the Umutaoroa Block, and I wished to ascertain the particulars as to how far the sale had gone. Mr. Smith told me they had arranged with the lessee to release 500 acres, which they had arranged to sell; and Smith explained that the reason for selling was to pay off the mortgage of £2,500 to the Union Bank, which would leave the rest of the property clear. He mentioned Mr. Tansey had bought 150 acres for dairying, and Eev. Wallace. Names and areas making up 500 acres were mentioned. I have had conversation with Mr. Eose after the memoranda. 240. Did you before ?—I have often spoken to him. I understood from general reports, and from him at the end of March last, that he was agent for Cadman and Smith. 241. Is property at Danevirke improving in value? Undoubtedly. 242. Good deal of public money spent there ?—Public buildings : it is the key of the East Coast as soon as the Weber Eoad is completed. 243. What do you believe to be the value of the Umutaoroa Block?—Do you mean now ? 244. Last year?—l do not feel in a position to give a value. Ido not know what timber has been removed—not been over the lands. 245. Can you give the value in 1885 ?—I should say about £4 an acre. Timber was then on it. 246. Cross-examined by Sir B. Stout.} Maharahara is about equidistant from Danevirke and Woodville. It was deferred-payment settlers who had price reduced. Ido not know it was redueed-as low as 305.; also the perpetual-leasehold—l believe some sold originally at 305., and ten years to pay it in. I cannot say whether any of the 30s. sales were reduced. Ido not know the Piripiri Block intimately ; I know the Tamaki Block. Tamaki is poorer than Umutaoroa land. Land varies: in places a great deal of shingle. I have been to the Tamaki Block, where the tram is about one mile. Portions I was over were poorer. On Tamaki Block only, about the mill. I could not say how many acres I saw; 200 acres just edge of block. I can give no opinion of Piripiri Block. I have been along the tramway in the Umutaoroa Block. I can only give a general opinion. I know Mr. C. M. Campbell; he is manager for Mr. Ormond. He is a good man to value. I should be surprised at his valuing the Umutaoroa Block at £5,000 in 1888. I had conversation with Eose before the letters, but not about this matter. 247. James Henby Clayton, examined by Mr. Bees.] Am proprietor of the Bush Advocate at Danevirke. I live at Danevirke. I know the position of the Umutaoroa Block Native Eeserve. 248. Did you make application to purchase any portion?—l did, to Mr. Eose; he lives at Danevirke and is commission agent. He gave me to understand I should get a small part of it: £12 an acre was the price. I knew by refusal that land belonged to Smith and Cadman. I think the arrangement was that I should have a piece when the land was surveyed. 249. Was any area mentioned?— Area understood was about 20 acres. I understood he was acting in selling. Nothing reduced to writing. 250. Did you after see Mr. Smith ? —Yes, when the land was surveyed; he told me the plan was ready, and asked me to go to the Survey Office and look at it. I understood Mr. Smith it might be a little less—paid about that. I mentioned the price to him. I think I told Smith I had spoken to Eose about it. 251. Beyond your own seeing Mr. Eose, ca.n you say whether he was an agent for the owners for sale? —I do not know of my knowledge. Transaction not completed, possession not got yet. Smith said he would execute my conveyance. The tramway runs through the section. 252. Cross-examined by Mr, Sainsbury .] I think that is the pick of the land. 253. As to agency of Eose : did you get a letter to look up on the subject ? —There is no no such advertisement. 254. Do you remember a meeting of the Eoad Board, when Mr. Eose's last valuation was the subject ? —Yes; I was present. The Board agreed to the valuations. 255. He-examined by Mr. Bees.] , There was no advertisement in the paper. He had never said that Mr. Eose had been negotiating for sale of particular sections of Umutaoroa to Mr. Charles Baddely —a large section of 300 acres at £5 an acre. 256. William Lee Eees, examined by Mr. Lusk.] What was the date of third reading Tahoraiti Bill ? —On 19th August, 1892, in House of Eepresentatives, and in Upper House on Ist September, 1892. [Page in Hansard, Volume lxxvii., page 204 : Upper House page 47.] 257. Had the proposals of the Commission been carried into effect on the Native land purchase ? —Native lands, where more than ten owners, could never have been dealt with—land would have to be dealt with as by the whole—as a body corporate. Land would have had to be cut up and sold like Native land. As to equitable owners, all who were at present shut out would be entitled to assert their claim. In all ways would have applied to Umutaoroa Block. The Natives shut out by the block having been given to the ten, would have been entitled to urge their claims as beneficiaries, and the land cut up—everybody placed on the same basis. A portion of the original. block, Piripiri, had been dealt with under the Equitable Owners Act, and 103 beneficiaries put in; and the same would have been so with the Umutaoroa Block. September 29th, 1892. I was in the House of Eepresentatives, the debate was on the Native Titles Validation ; it was being read a second time. Sir George Grey spoke on that debate and Lawry after spoke. [Hansard, vol. lxxviii.,