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out that this powder was bad, and would not make good cartridges; but the Government, I believe, told him to make them. He did make them, and they were very bad indeed. Then this difficulty began. Since then it is very difficult to make the Volunteers believe that what we are making is good, because of the bad name they first got. They have a prejudice against them, and it is very difficult to make them believe that they are good. The complaint that the Volunteers now make is principally of missfire, which is almost, if not entirely, due to the rifles. And why I say this is because almost all the cases of missfire have occurred with carbines, and not with rifles. The same sized ammunition fits both carbines and rifles. The ammunition is delivered by Captain "Whitney's firm into the magazine in Auckland. It is tested by our officer, Colonel Goring, and I have several of his reports. [Reports produced and read.] 10. These reports you consider favourable ?—Yes, we have not had a bad report as yet. I have brought letters of complaint from Volunteers. [Letters produced.] 11. Will you state the nature of these complaints, and the nature of the inquiry made into them ?—There was a report from the battery at Napier. They had eight missfires in the volleyfiring one morning. 12. Hon. Sir J. Hall.] Out of how many rounds would that be?— That would be out of four hundred and fifty rounds. They fired with carbines and not with rifles. They sent me up five rounds out of eight missfires, and I sent them on to Colonel Goring, and he fired them off at once. 13. Did he fire them out of carbines or rifles?—He fired out of rifles. They had two at the same time which were supposed to have no powder in them, consequently they would not go off. It was found clearly that one had the powder extracted. Colonel Goring saw the marks unmistakably. The other never had any powder. 14. Mr. Laivry.] That might happen with any cartridges ?—lt happens very often in the British army ; you cannot get everything perfect. 15. The Chairman.] When these complaints reached you they were inquired into?— Yes. 16. With what result? —That the ammunition is fairly good. I have fired myself a good deal, and I believe the ammunition may be classed thus: Ely, first; Whitney, second; and Kynock, third. These are the three in general use. I may say from my experience that I consider Ely's and Whitney's ammunition as reliable as that which was issued to us when I was in the Imperial service. Kynock's Ido not believe in, and never did. 17. Mr. E. M. Smith.] Are we to understand that the eight missfires are to be accounted for by carbines being used instead of rifles ?—Yes, undoubtedly. That was proved by Colonel Goring— with the exception that one had no anvil. 18. Mr. Lawry.] Are you aware that five million of English cartridges were condemned as entirely useless last year in New South Wales ?—No, Ido not know it except from report; but, if it was so, it was Martini-Henry ammunition, not Snider. 19. Are you aware of any being condemned as useless in New South Wales or Victoria?— Yes. I have been talking about Snider ammunition. I saw a report about Martini-Henry ammunition, but I know nothing of any Snider ammunition having been condemned. 20. I suppose you have personally visited the works erected by Captain Whitney at Mount Eden ? —Yes, several times. 21. You consider them fit to accomplish the purpose for which they were erected?—l do; and I believe he is turning out good work. 22. How much powder have you in your magazine, and for what purpose was it ordered—was it for Snider rifles ?—I am certain we have 15 tons, either in stock or coming. 23. Was that ordered for the purpose of being worked up in Captain Whitney's factory ? —Yes, it was. 24. Are the Colonial Ammunition Company expected to keep a stock of material in hand to meet probable requirements ?—Well, I do not know that we could force them to do it, but I should say they are expected to do so. 25. There is an understanding to that effect ?—Yes. 26. How long is it after an order for English cartridges is given before they are delivered ?—I should say from eight to twelve months. 27. How long was the last order given before they were delivered ?—The last that were ordered were wrecked in the "Assaye." 28. Will you place all the correspondence at the disposal of the Committee ?—Yes; I will supply all correspondence and reports. 29. The Chairman.] Do you look upon it as a matter of great importance to have a manufactory of cartridges and ammunition in this colony ?—Certainly, if we can get the article equal in price and quality to the English, it is a very important thing. 30. Will you explain why it is so important ?—First of all, our reserve stock in case of war is large ;' there is a large quantity kept in stock which is distributed to the different centres. In the present day, with breech-loaders, it is hard to say how much might be expended if there was any war. Then, of course, we can get no more except by sending to England, with the liability of delay or accident. There is an object in keeping the manufacture of them in the country. 31. Irrespective of any crisis?— Yes ; I mean for commercial and other reasons. 32. Hon. Sir J. Hall.} What is the use of having a manufactory of cartridges if it is dependent upon a foreign supply of powder?—At the present time we have got about 15 tons. 33. If you can import your powder you can import cartridges? —We have always got a supply of powder in hand—we have always got 5 tons in stock, 5 tons on the way out, and another 5 tons at homo. 34. Are you aware whether in the Australian Colonies powder is manufactured ?—Not for making up into cartridges—not for Government cartridges. 35. For military purposes ?—I do not know.

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