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in Gisborne —that you were not occupied two or three days going through the accounts in Mr. De Latour's office in Gisborne ? —No; all I know is that about the time that you and Wi Pere went to England we again asked for accounts, which were not given us. 185. Before that time, do you mean to say that you did not go into Mr. De Latour's office and look at the accounts, in common with all the committees of the different blocks ?—lt is perfectly true that we had a meeting with regard to your going to England. I myself asked for accounts to be furnished to us, but they were not given to us. 186. Did you not see the books in the interpreter's office, and go through them with the interpreter, Mr. Albert McKay?—No. 187. Were not the owners, yourself amongst them, aware that this £3,000 was spent in the general work of surveys, legal expenses, and other things connected with the general work in which Wi Pere and myself were engaged for the Natives ? —Seeing that no account was given to me, how could I say how the money was spent ? How did I know how it was spent ? 188. If Wi Pere and myself proposed to place the £3,000 in the bank, bearing interest at 6 per cent., so as to bring the Natives an income of £180 a year, how is it they have never asked for the money, or for the interest, until it was mentioned by you in Gisborne, for you must remember that it is twelve years since ?—I have already stated to the committee that we did not make a demand for that money. 189. But I want you to tell the committee how it is that if you and the other Natives understood that this money was in the bank, with interest accruing, which you were to receive, that you have never asked for either principal or interest during these twelve years ?—All I know is that we never made any demand for the money ; it did not occur to us to demand it. 190. Was it because you and the Natives were well aware that the money was used with their consent for these general purposes—with your own knowledge ? —No; that was not the reason. You know all about how the money was spent; Ido not. 191. Did you not come to my office in Gisborne about six or eight months ago and get me to draw up a petition for you, to be signed by the Natives generally, about the company and the land ? —I did not. The only petition that I know of is the one you prepared for the Natives to sign. 192. Did you not come and instruct me?— No. 193. Have you got that petition ?—Baniera Turoa has the petition you drew up. Your son asked me where the petition was that had been prepared relating to the Kaiparo and Pakowhai. I said I had given it to Eaniera and the Kaiparo Natives ; but nobody had signed it at the time I gave it to them. 194. You say that you and several other Natives brought an action in relation to the Pakowhai Block?— Yes. 195. Did you say anything during that action of the claim you had against Wi Pere and myself ? Did you say a word about our having received £3,000 and not accounting for it ? —I do not remember. 196. Did not the Natives of the Pakowhai Block, after this £3,000 had been paid, say the bulk of the money was to be used for general purposes on the other blocks—on the whole of the blocks, in fact ? —I have already stated so. I have explained that the £10,000 was to be expended in that way. 197. Were not these Natives two or three times before Captain Preece, the Trust Commissioner, going through the whole of these circumstances for two or three days together in the Trust Commissioner's Court? —W Till you mention some circumstances that might call it to my memory. 198. Did not the Trust Commissioner refuse to certify, seeing that the other lands might not be able to pay?—l do not remember. No doubt you remember all the circumstances, but Ido not. 199. Do you not remember—you yourself as one of the committee—being for two or three days before Captain Preece, and being examined about the conveyance of Pakowhai?—l do not know. 200. The Chairman.] But you must know whether you were before him or not ?—I was never before him for two or three days. 201. Were you before him at all? —I remember going before him with regard to a protest against the mortgage of Kopua. 202. Mr. Bees.) Did you not sign the deed of Pakowhai to Eeed's trustees as one of the committee? —I did sign the deed. 203. Did you not go before the Trust Commissioner on that signature?—As you are very persistent in asking me these questions, perhaps I did go before him, but I have no clear recollection of going before him on that occasion. 204. Who paid for the surveys of Maraetaha No. 2 and the surrounding blocks ? —I do not know who paid for them. 205. Do not these lands belong to you and your people ? Did you not get a certificate in the Native Land Court for them?— The land was awarded to us. 206. Do you mean to say you do not know who paid for the surveys ? —I believe the company paid for the surveys. 207. Did they not pay for the surveys out of a portion of this money of Johnson's? Does it not belong to the same owners as Pakowhai? —You know exactly what was done with this money, because you know or saw the accounts. Had the accounts been given to me I could have said whether that was the case or not. 208. Let me ask you this : whether it was not a general understanding that both the £3,000 and the £10,000 were to be used and to be debited against the other blocks, and the money spent on them to be recouped from those other blocks ?—That would have been perfectly clear had it been explained at the time, that the £3,000 was to be used for that purpose. With regard to the £10,000, it was explained that it was to be used for those purposes.