13

I.—3a,

302. Tell the Committee what was said ?—I said that the name of Mare Kura was not on the deed that I took a copy of at the Court at Waitara. 303. "When did you take that copy ? —I could not give you the actual date. It was at the sitting of the Land Court at Waitara. 304. How long after ?—Some short time afterwards. 305. Do you remember when the leases were passed by the Trust Commissioner?—l do. 306. Was it before that ? —I believe it was. 307. Well, what did you say to Stockman about that signature?—l told him plainly that the deed on which they got the certificate was for the Mangaawakino Block, because they had no owners for the Mangapapa and the Mangoira. 308. What did Stockman say in reply? —He said, " Oh ! that has nothing to do with you." 309. Did he make any further remarks about the signature ?—Not to me. He made a remark in the presence of Jones and myself in the hotel-parlour that the deed that Walker had produced before the Court had not a single owner's signature on it. 310. Can you say whether the name of Mare Kura was on that agreement when you first saw it or not ?—I could not say. 311. Do you know a man named Thompson, interpreter to the Court at New Plymouth?— I do. 312. Had you any conversation with him in June, 1887, with reference to any of these matters ? —Yes, I have spoken to him about them. 313. What did he say ?—He said he had been directed by the Chief Judge to work for Walker. 314. Anything else ? —Yes —I would hardly like to say what he did say. 315. The Chairman.'] You had better state what he said ?—Jones was standing near, and he put the question to Thompson, " What do you mean by that ? " He said, " That means that the Judge is a bloody scoundrel." 316. Who said that ? —E. S. Thompson, interpreter to the Court. 317. Was anybody else present besides yourself and Jones?—Mr. Arthur Owen was present, and the barman of the hotel heard it. 318. This was at the hotel?—Yes; at the entrance to the Taranaki Hotel. 319. Do you know Major Brown?—l do. 320. Do you know of your own knowledge that he went up to Mokau after June, 1887 ?— He did. 321. Were you at Mokau ? —I went overland. He went by steamer, with Walker, the interpreter, and some others. 322. Did you see him at Mokau?—Yes, I saw him there. 323. What was he doing?—He was getting signatures for a new lease. 324. What new lease ?—The new lease that was prepared after the granting of the certificate. 325. He was getting signatures?—He was getting signatures. They went down for that purpose. 326. Do you know if he paid any money to any Natives ? —He did. 327. Do you know if he paid any money to any of the Natives who signed the leases?—He did. He paid the money at Parihaka ; he paid money to three Natives there. 328. Who went with Major Brown to the Mokau? —Charles Brown, a half-caste, as Native interpreter. 329. Were you present when any Natives signed the leases?—Yes, I was present when Bangiawhia signed. 330. Anybody else ? —Well, there were a number of Natives present. 331. Did you see any other Natives sign ?—At night Walker sent to me to ask if I would witness a signature. I said I had no objection at all, because I knew their document was of no use. I went over and witnessed the signature. 332. Was there an interpreter there?—Yes; but there was no interpretation of any kind. It was not read over in English or interpreted in Maori. 333. Who induced the Natives to sign?—l could not tell. 334. Did you see the signatures?—Major Brown pointed out the place for the woman to sign. I saw the woman make her mark on the place pointed out by Major Brown. 335. Was the Mokau Coal Company interested in the agreement to which you have referred— Owen's agreement with Stockman? —Yes, they have an interest in part of the block. 336. Then Mr. Owen has an interest in the Mokau Coal Company as well ? —He would have an interest in acquiring the land. 337. Had you an interest in the Mokau Coal Company?—Yes. 338. Are you interested with Mr. Owen?—No ; but I am interested with his brother. 339. In a different block ?—ln a different block. 340. What has been done with the block you are interested in ? —lt is still there. 341. It is not through the Court? —No; I believe it was passed through the Court as a whole —the whole of the Native block. Mr. Eugene McCakthy examined. 342. Mr. Gray.] What are you? —A master mariner. 343. Where do you live ?—At Waitara. 344. Were you captain of the vessel that traded to Mokau in June last year?—Yes. 345. What was the name of the vessel ?—Steamship " Waitara." 346. Do you remember taking Major Charles Brown from Waitara to Mokau in June last ? — Yes, I took him down.