H.—7

28

37. Were you there when the concrete wall was backed up?— Yes, sir. 88. Can you describe how the backing was put in?— Part of clay and part of stone, just as the material was found handy. 39. Thrown in at the back?— Yes. 40. That is the same stuff that was excavated?— Yes, out of the hill at the back. 41. Was it punned or rammed ? —Yes. 42. Was there any water standing about the wall after it was completed, before the filling was put in?— Well, no more than pools were lying about, you know. 43. Mr. Blair.] Do you know Mr. Inspector Brindley?—Yes, sir. 44. Did he ever find fault with the way in which the concrete was put into the trenches?— Yes, he has found fault several times. 45. Did you hear him finding fault yourself ?—Yes, sir. 46. Did you know of any considerable quantities of boulders being thrown into the concrete ?— Yes. 47. Boulders and rubbish?—Spawls—bluestone. Mr. Gore : I think, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Blair might put his questions more generally, and not in such a leading manner—putting words into the witness's mouth. Mr. Blair : I have not put words into his mouth. The Chairman : You might put the question—was rubbish put in or not ? 48. Mr. Blair.] Was what you consider rubbish put in ?—Yes, spawls. 49. How were they put in—by hand or by the barrow-load ? —Well, I have seen them put in by the barrow, but principally by hand. 50. But you have seen them put in by the barrow-load ?—Yes, sir, I have. 51. Mr. Skinner.] I should like to ask what he means by spawls. Is it the spawls off large blocks by the hammer, or round boulders?— There were round boulders and spawls off the hammer. 52. Mr. Blair.] Were these spawls mixed with the cement before the concrete was put in the trenches ?—No. 53. Tipped in afterwards ?—Tipped in. 54. Whereabouts in the building were these barrow-loads of boulders and spawls put in?— Well, mostly in the tower that I seen. 55. Did you ever know the Inspector to condemn the bricks? —Yes, I have heard of it. 56. Did you see the bricks yourself? —Yes. 57. Have you any notion of what bricks should be?— Yes, I have a good idea. 58. Were these good bricks ?—No, they were not, as a rule. 59. Well, do you know if condemned bricks have been put into the building?— Yes, I believe they were used there. 60. Mr. Gore.] You believe ! do you swear it ?—Yes, I swear it. 61. Mr. Blair.] Were there any condemned bricks, to your knowledge, removed from the ground? —Well, there might bo a thousand or two. 62. Were there any sold by the Contractor, do you know?— Well, not unless the neighbours got them. They might have got two or three thousand, I suppose. 63. What were they sold to the neighbours for ?—For chimneys and suchlike. 64. Were there bricks over at the asylum after the asylum was finished?— Yes, a few. 65. Do you happen to know how many there were, or what they were worth? —Well, Mr. Gore offered them to me for about £15 or £16, so far as I remember. 66. Were those all condemned bricks, or were there other bricks among them?— Mostly condemned bricks, and there were a few good ones amongst them, and it took in the kilns as well. 67. Took in what stood in the kilns?— Yes ; and the kilns themselves. 68. The Chairman.] I would ask the witness whether he recollects the condemned bricks being used, for instance, for filling in the courts, or any other purpose —broken up and put on the roads ? —Yes, some were. A great many might have been got rid of in that way. 69. Mr. Gore.] For concrete ?—A good many were used up in that way. 70. Mr. Blair.] Do you think they were used in concrete in the walls ? —ln the brickwork. 71. Mr. Skinner.] Was it part of your duty to see the mixing of the concrete?—l was on the walls or in the foundations. 72. Only the cutting-out ?—No ; in filling them up. 73. W Tas it your duty to supervise the mixing of the concrete? — No; I was in the walls, placing the stones at a portion of the building. 74. That is, placing the packing?— Placing the packing, yes, sir. 75. Then you did not see the mixing of the concrete?—Oh, yes! I saw the mixing of the concrete. Of course it was always in sight. 76. Mr. Lawson.] Was it under Mr. Gore's orders he was mixing the packing? —Yes. 77. The Chairman.] Did he give the orders direct?— Yes; or through Mr. Gore here, or Mr. John Gore. 78. They were given direct to you ?—Yes. 79. What were the orders, if you recollect ?—To place the stone in courses, Bin. or 9in. apart— 7in., Bin., or 9in. apart. 80. How big were they—l mean in height ?—Twelve-inch courses. Mr. Lawson: They were told to place them 3in. or 4in. 81. The Chairman.] Were you told to place them 3in. or 4in. apart?—l did not say so, sir. 82. Were you ?—No, sir. 83. Mr. Gore.] You said Mr. Brindley found fault with the foundations: what was the fault he found ? —Having too much water in. He wanted to bale the water out before putting in the concrete.