39
A.—B
Answer: So they are still: for your Lordships have a negative to the whole. But, on the other side, it would be a double check upon His Majesty's affairs if the King may not rely upon the quantum, when once his people have given it; and therefore the privilege now contended for by your Lordships is not of use to the Crown, but much to the contrary. 2. Your Lordships' reasons, drawn from the writ of summons, is as little concluding, for _ though the writ do not exclude you from any affairs, yet it is only de quibusdam arduis negotiis; and must be understood of such as by course of Parliament are proper, else the Commons, upon the like ground, may entitle themselves to judicature, for they are also called ad faciend' de consentiend' de quibusdam arduis & super negotiis antedictis. 3. Your Lordships proceed to demand where is that record or contract in Parliament to be found where the Lords appropriate this right to the Commons in exclusion of themselves? Answer : To this rhetorical question the Commons pray they may answer by another question : Where is that record or contract by which the Commons submitted that judicature should be appropriated to the Lords in exclusion of themselves ? Wherever your Lordships find the last record they will show the first endorsed upon the back of the same roll. Truth is, precedents there are where both sides do exercise those several rights; but none how either side came by them. 4. If the Lords may deny the whole, why not a part ?—else the Commons may at last pretend to bar a negative voice. Answer : The King must deny the whole of every Bill, or pass it; yet this takes not away his negative voice. The Lords and Commons must accept the whole general pardon, or deny it; yet this takes not away their negative. The clergy have a right to tax themselves; and it is a part of the privilege of their estate. Doth the Upper Convocation House alter what the Lower grant ? Or do the Lords or Commons ever abate any part of their gift ? Yet they have the power to reject the whole. But, if abatement should be made, it would insensibly go to a rising, and deprive the clergy of their ancient right to tax themselves. 5. Your Lordships say, Judicature is undoubtedly ours, yet in Bills of judicature we allow the Commons to amend and alter : why should not the Commons allow us the same privilege in Bills of money ? Answer: If contracts were now to be made for privileges, the offer might seem fair : but yet the Commons should profit little by it; for your Lordships do now industriously avoid all Bills of that nature, and chuse to do many things by your own power which ought to be done by the legislative, of which we forbear the instances, because your Lordships, we hope, will reform them ; and we desire, not to create new differences, but to compose the old. 6. Your Lordships say you are put to an ignoble choice either to refuse the King's supplies when they are most necessary, or to consent to such ways and proportions which neither your own judgment nor the good of the Government or people can admit. Answer: We pray your Lordships to observe that this reason —■ 1. Makes your Lordships' judgment to be the measure of the welfare of the commons of England.
2. It gives you power to raise and increase taxes, as well as to abate ; for it may sometimes, in your Lordships' judgments, be for interests of trade to raise and increase a rate, as well as to lessen it: and then, still you are brought to the same ignoble choice, unless you may raise the tax. But it is a very ignoble choice put upon the King and his people that either His Majesty must demand and. the Commons give so small an aid as can never be diminished, or else run the hazard of your Lordships' re-examination of the rates ; whose proportions in all taxes, in comparison to what the commonality pay, is very inconsiderable. 7. If positive assertion can introduce right the Lords have no security, but the Commons may extend a right as they judge it necessary or expedient. Answer: We hope no assertions or denials, though never so positive, shall give or take away a right; but we rely upon usage on our side, and non-usage on your Lordships' part, as the best evidence by which your Lordships, or we, can claim any privilege. 8. Your Lordships profess a desire to raise our esteem with His Majesty and the whole kingdom, but not by the under-valuation of the House of Beers. Answer: We have so great confidence in His Majesty's goodness that, we assure ourselves, nothing can lessen His Majesty's esteem of our dutiful affections to him; and we hope we have deserved so well of our country, by our deportment towards His Majesty, that we shall not need your Lordships' recommendation to any who wish well to His Majesty or the present Government. But we are so far from wishing to raise an esteem by any diminution of your Lordships' honour or privileges that there never was any House of Commons who had a more just and true respect of that noble Constitution of a House of Beers; of which your Lordships have had frequent instances, by our consenting to several clauses in former Bills for the securing and improving your Lordships' privileges. 9. We are sorry to see your Lordships undervalue the precedent of this last Act of Tonage and Poundage, because, though it were an Act of the last Convention, it was confirmed in this Parliament, and because the right of the Commons there asserted was pursuant to a former precedent in 1642 ; and possibly had not passed so if the younger members of that Convention had not learned from some of those great and noble Lords who now manage the Conference for your Lordships, and were then Commoners, that this was the undoubted right of the Commons. To conclude, the Commons have examined themselves and their proceedings, and find no cause why your Lordships should put them in mind of that modesty by which their ancestors showed a great deference to the wisdom of the Lords, for they resolve ever to observe the modesty of their ancestors, and doubt not .but your Lordships will also follow the wisdom of yours. It was unanimously Resolved, That the thanks of the House be returned to Mr. Attorney-General for his great pains and care in preparing and drawing up the reasons delivered to the Lords, in answer to their reasons, which was by him performed to the great satisfaction of this House, in vindication of their privilege, and just and undoubted right of the Commons of England. - And Mr. Speakbk did, accordingly, deliver the thanks of the House to Mr. Attorney-General.
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