5

G.—3

Bihia (of Manganui-te-Ao): I wished to hear why you and Tawhiao went to England. I will not sign now, but will wait till you bring the document for signature to my kainga. Te liaka (of Manganui-te-Ao): I will sign. Te Hualci (of Whanganui): I think we, Whanganui and Tuwharetoa, should send our names with Hori. He wishes to send them to England to back up his statement already there (re gold, &c). I.remember pretty well where it is. I am therefore pleased with Hori, and will wait till Gorst comes out, and then we can free ourselves from our difficulties. Manihera : This railway was started at my instigation; the town is mine. I have ceased to lease, &c, since 1884. What Hori says is true. Hori Bopiha : I explained all our troubles when we went to England. Tawhiao was with me; we went on behalf of all the Natives in the Island, to see if we could not do something for the benefit of the Native race. All I know is, that Tawhiao, Topia, and I went to take all our troubles, and left our petition behind. I request you people to sign this document, to back up our petition. Lord Derby said that this was the best petition he had ever seen ; that Natives themselves should be Judges of the Native Land Courts; that they then would be better able to investigate their own titles, and that the land obtained by the New Zealand Government under false pretences would then be returned to them. We left none of your grievances untold to Mr. Gorst and Lord Derby. Let us leave all our evil ways, and join the Blue Eibbon, and leave witchcraft (makutu), quarrelling, &c. From the day Tawhiao went on board he took the blue ribbon. The Church of England is nothing without the blue ribbon. [To Whanganui: Do not be afraid of Kemp, lest you should lose your lands. Who is Kemp? He is not a god ; lam not a god. There are only two who can take off our tapu— God, and the King Eangiorua. If a person asks to be allowed to survey, do not let him do it.] Henare te Aro (of Patea): Most of the people here are Tuwharetoa, Te Eangiita, and Te Ngatitama ; other hapus do not exceed twenty. At the beginning of this meeting it was said that it was for the high trees, the little trees, and even the grass. Hori can go to Whanganui if he likes ; it is his business as a minister to do so. Te Moana: After hearing this you should all go to your whares and bring your list of signatures in the morning (i.e., to document previously mentioned). Topia Turoa: These signatuies merely show the people who agree with us, not for Hori to show to obtain money on, or to send to England. Hori is not to receive £10 or £200 for it, but we all derive advantage from it. Hori is from Ngatikahungunu ; lam of Tuwharetoa. I have learnt a great deal since I went to England, and have found this the only way we can retrieve ourselves. Take notice of what Hori says, and of the letter which came since we left England. I have said enough re these subjects, but will speak again if necessary. Te Waaha Tamaira : I leave behind all our past doings, whether Hauhau or Government. We should prevent voting either for Government or Hauhau members. When your new Government comes I shall put my land through the Court. I was the first to conduct my case in the Land Court at Taupo, and lost by it. I have seen this long, how we have been suffering. You say this meeting is for the good of the Maoris; if you have any good to propose, do so. I think you are genuine in wishing to forward Maori interests. If you want to get twenty thousand signatures to send to Parliament, you might; but I think you do so to forward Maori interests. You say if all the people want a survey, have one. The blue ribbon is a thing to prevent surveys. You could not have said less. Pehi Turoa : I will support the blue ribbon. Ido not believe in malice or witchcraft. I will sign no document. Tawhiao talks of taking the Island out of difficulties; when he does so I will sign and back him up. Te Bangi Whakarurua [to Hori]: How long will it be before the new Government [Gorst, &c] arrives? Months, weeks, or days? I might not live to see it. Hori Bopiha : Those who are not for us are against us. We will sign and fight for our cause; but we will have a right Government behind us. Do not leave us after joining us. Stick to Topia and myself, and we will carry you through. It will be a hard fight, but we will succeed. Let us all join the king. Iro Bangi: The king and the new Government will not last long. It rests more with the Opposition than with us. Tawhiao is doing all he can, and so are we. If all join together we can contend with this and all other difficulties. Hitiri Paerata (Waipapa): I believe your statement is correct; all should sign, men, women, and children. Put the signatures under this house for the discussion of the meeting—under the mana of the king. I also want a copy of the list of names. Heperi Pikirangi : The list is for the whole Island to sign. I also want a copy of the names signed at this meeting. Kingi Herekiekie: They have discovered gold at Tuhua, and I hear they have done so at Kawhia. [To an objector]: Paurini says, "Do not come here and speak against Tawhiao." Te Moana : Let us leave our own personal grievances on one side. God is above all, and he is with the king. Te Aro (of Karioi, not Henare Te Aro) says that many say what Te Eangiita says, if you go to our kainga we will sign. [N.B. —Te Eangiita does not say so; what they said was this: If Hori Eopiha went to Tapuaeharuru, and Major Scannell tells us the representative of the Government stated that what he said was correct, they would do so.] Te Heuheu Tuhino : [To Hori] I want a copy of your pamphlet, so that I may show it to my enemies. Tawhiao went from us bearing malice against Tuwharetoa, Ngatiraukawa, and Ngatimaniapoto, and did not consult us re his trip to England. You seem to think that we should all sign, like a flock of sheep. In my opinion, this should be different; you appear only to want chiefs I say every one should sign. 2—G. 3.