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Heperi Pikirangi : Hohepa said, "Let us go into Committee," yet you go on talking-while they are away. Hori Bopiha: Our fathers are dead and their customs too :we must look to ourselves—the remnant. lam not opposed to Tawhiao. I have been four or five times to Hastings to try and upset the Native Land Court there, but the people would not agree. If any of the people here try to put their land through I will oppose their doing so. I agree with Tawhiao in not leasing or putting land through the Court. Let us all join in not doing so. I have had a great deal of experience in these matters. I would not try to upset Tawhiao; but any one who is obstinate in putting his land through the Court, I would go and throw him out. Manihera (of Wanganui, Roman Catholic), spoke against the Hauhau creed (when Heperi and others left). Christ said, "lam the first and the last." When the end of the world comes He will select the good from the bad. Eeligion does not affect the king at all: he is our king over this Island. Hohepa Tamamutu and Saw-in Kahia (as spokesmen for the Ngatiterangiita, a -hapu of Tuwharetoa, living on the eastern side of Lake Taupo), stated, for themselves and their hapu, that they had always been on the Government side ; that they approved of Land Courts, surveys, leases, sales, and Maori members; and that, though they had nothing to say against Tawhiao, they preferred the government of the Queen. Hemapo Hikarahui (of Omanui) followed on the same side. Topia Turoa invited discussion from both sides. Hori Bopiha said : I have come here to explain to you what I heard and saw in England re land and King Tawhiao, and to devise a scheme for our benefit. We labour under great difficulties, both as to land and other things, such as insufficiency of members in Parliament, Native Land Courts, &c. The Native members are merely images—only European members do anything— the Maori members have neither ability nor desire to do anything. Let us cease to have anything to do with Europeans, their laws, Courts, Parliaments, or anything. All our grievances arise from the pakeha, and are not our own doing. In going to England I have learnt all about Parliaments, Courts, &c. Now let us. unite and be one. We have come to grief through being divided, and have lost our land. Now let us join together. All our land has been divided. I now come to this meeting to get us to join as one people, and dispense altogether with Europeans. One of our grievances is this : that in some cases our land has been vested in ten trustees, and if one of them died his share was divided amongst the surviving nine, and his issue got nothing— [To Hohepa : Do you uphold Tawhiao ? Hohepa: We do not object to him.] —Every one here listen to me. Let us unite and proclaim Tawhiao King of New Zealand, and uphold his authority. Let us all go in one canoe. We went to England to see about the Treaty of Waitangi. Be careful in your replies to the different heads. Do not mix them :be one. A portion even now wish to fall away from us ; but let us be careful. Matuahu: There is a lot of trouble. Believe what Hori and Topia say. But I will wait till I hear what all have to say, and then I will decide. Hohepa : Our first cause of trouble was fighting with Europeans. If Te Heuheu had had his way we should not have done so. It is through the king and those hapus that there has been trouble. Let Hori go back to the Land Court. If Waikato, Whanganui, and Ngatikahungunu were present, and all decided a petition to do away with the Land Court, all right; but Hori cannot himself do away with it. It is not through Europeans, but Maoris, that I lost my land. Te Heuheu Tukino : Let Hori produce a document for signatures backing up the king. Hori states he has it. Heperi Pikirangi: I agree with Topia re subjects to be discussed, and the best thing we can do is to go into Committee and discuss them. Be the " Eohe-potae," I consider we should say to the Government, "This is our boundary;" secondly, when they brought down the boundary of Tuwharetoa, I was in doubt as to whether it was the Tuwharetoa to whom I belong or those of Turiroa. They afterwards altered this boundary, and I believe Wahanui laid it out. I wrote to the Government not to disturb our boundary. With. respect to the division of the four tribes included in the " Eohe-potae," I wish them to join together. Te Moana: Be Te Heuheu and. Topia's speeches, in those days I was pleased with the "Eohe-potae." Sales and leases are now similar to the "Eohe-potae." How can the elders say anything when their opinions are divided ? On that day the Matuahu was my principal. Be Heperi's speech, he asks that the document should be given them to sign. If a man signs his name he agrees with the document. Signing is easy, like paddling a canoe when the sea is calm. To-day will not finish the business, but it must go on for ever, irrespective of injustice to children. In this day God will complete the whole of the remainder of the people. I am the graveyard of Topia, Te Heuheu, and Matuahu. If you are angry with what I say, I shall also be angry. If the business is finished to-day, well; if not, I shall go my way. If there were a thousand chiefs here I should say lam a child of to-day ; if I had a lease or a sale I should say it was mine. I have two leases, and I wish them to be discussed. Europeans are careful people, and therefore we are careful too., I wish that we should do what is right, and that we can tear up our bad clothes and our bad minds. I wish Hohepa to take down in writing what I have said, so that he may think of it at some future time. Te Hamuti: Te Heuheu, Matuahu, and another are the three; one of them is going with Tawhiao; one went to England—he is present—he has followed Tawhiao. Only I agreed with Potatau: he is now dead ; but I still go on in the same course, and the post erected in his day still stands. Te Heuheu Tukino: I have stood up, so that my speech may be glorified. lam with Matuahu. My final words: My boundary is like a kiwi's egg lying before me, and it is not yet broken, and I wish the kiwi to hatch it. I have given-the boundary and the land to him; my mana is also with him. My boundary which was spoken of by Hohepa matters not; if a portion is