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effective in a larger and more suitable building: there would be a larger profit made for the Government. Mr. Didsbury was called away, and so he was unable to go over the building with Mr. Carson and myself; and Mr. Costall therefore accompanied us. We first walked around his room, in which there were fourteen compositors and Mr. Costall himself. Mr. Costall pointed out to us how badly the room was ventilated, the atmosphere being then in a foul state. It was also badly lighted. There is insufficient light in the day-time to work at the " randoms " in the centre of the room. This is the room in which Bills are altered; consequently a large amount of " stone " space is necessary. There are only two imposing-surfaces in this room, and about four are required; but, if there were other two, there would be no floor-space for them. The workers there also suffer inconvenience from want of rack-accommodation for galleys. These are piled up upon the floor. That is a bad practice, and often injures the type ; but there is no room to put up more racks. The same holds good in reference to "chases," or iron frames in which the types are locked up. For instance, there are eighty double-demy chases and only rack-accommodation for forty, the others being placed in piles leaning against the walls; and if a workman wants to get the chase next to or near the wall he has to move all or nearly all the others, thus entailing a great loss of time. With proper rack-accommodation any chase of type could be drawn out with ease. We then went to the machine-room. There are quite a number of machines there—one double-royal, two double-demy, two double-crown, a treadle, and an address machine—and all the machines in that room, with the exception of one double-demy, are very fair, one or two being excellent machines. The one exception, I think, is nearly useless to the Government. It is old—one of tho first that was in the office. It cannot be driven at a rapid rate, and the impression obtained from it is not very good. There, again, the want of room is very patent. We noticed that between two of the largo machines there is a passage through which men are continually going (often with loads of paper), and there is only a space of something like twenty-one inches between the fly-wheels of the two machines. One flywheel is exposed; so that those passing to and fro are in constant danger of accident. At the head of one of these machines the machinist himself has to pass from time to time to see to the ink-duct. He does not allow the boys to go there, for fear of accident; and he himself, when the machine is working, has to wait his opportunity to get in behind. He says he runs a constant risk of being seriously injured. 298. Mr. Cowan.] That is solely for want of room?—Yes. From the machine-room we went into the " damping" room, where the paper is damped and cut up. We found there one rulingmachine, two cutting-machines, and also a folding-machine. They are all good machines of their kind. The folding-room is not a very large room, and there are twenty-one girls and several men at work there. The light is not any too good in that room. In what are termed the store-rooms, where the leather, millboard, &c, are kept, I observed that they had to use artificial light, and candles were taken in, which is risky. There is no room to dispose of the material. The leathers have to be pushed away into holes and corners, and there is certainly some loss on account of the rats eating the binding-leather. In the sub-overseer's room —Mr. Burns's—there are also fourteen hands employed. In that room Hansard is made up, and most of the tabular matter is there set. Mr. Burns complains of want of accommodation for the work. There is not sufficient rack-accom-modation for either the forms or the galleys. 299. Perhaps you would explain, Mr. Leary, that the Hansard " making-up "-room is not the composing-room? —It is quite distinct from the Hansard composing-room, being the room where the matter is taken after the piece-hands have corrected their " takes." The matter is made up here into page form. The authors' corrections are also made in this room. While in Mr. Burns's room I noticed a number of galleys —I think twelve —on which the dust was standing thickly. On questioning him about them, he said the matter had been standing for at least eighteen months or two years. It belonged to the Marine Department, and they did not send in an order to print it. There is certainly a considerable loss in that. It would not be permitted in a private office. A contractor would distribute the matter and charge for setting it up again. So that the Government Office is not worked altogether with a view to profit, but in some respects for the convenience of departments. 300. I suppose, to remedy that you would recommend that the Government Printer be armed with sufficient authority to say to a department, as a private printer would say, that he could not keep plant locked up in that way ? —I think it very desirable that the Government Printer should have that authority, and beg to make a recommendation to that effect. 301. Mr. Samuel.] Do you know the reason why this type is kept locked up? —I do not know. The matter is something in connection with lighthouses. 302. I merely ask if it is necessary to keep it locked up like that ? If so, that would be a great reason in favour of the work being done by the Government Office ?—A private printer would certainly not keep type standing like that, or, if he did, he would charge heavily for it. Then, again, the overseer informed me that frequently matter is sent into the Government Printing Office to be put into type, marked " Very urgent," and they put ten or a dozen hands on it; but if it were sent to a private office only two or three hands would be put upon it so that the Government would not get the very urgent work turned out so quickly as from their own office. The piece-room, to which we next went, is the best lighted and ventilated in the establishment; but it is overcrowded. There is frame-room for only twenty-one, and thirty-four hands are employed in it. I asked for the measurements of the several rooms, and was informed that the Government Printer had the measurements and had given them in his evidence before the Committee. The apprentices' room is, I think, sufficiently large for the number in it. There are five apprentices and a sub-overseer in that room. In that room, too, all the titling letter is kept; so that men working in other rooms have to go a considerable distance for perhaps one line of type. That arises from the fact that there is no available space for it anywhere else. It is kept there because there is a little spare space. Anything I have said about the insufficiency of light does not apply to the artificial light. I think the electric light,