9

1.—5

94. The one definite point which this Committee is appointed to inquire into is, as to the advisability or otherwise of executing by private contract any part of the Government printing. Will you give the Committee your opinion upon that point ? —Speaking candidly, I do not think that the private printer could successfully compete with the Government Printing Office; for the private printer would naturally expect to make a profit upon his work, and it appears to me that that profit is now made or saved by the Government Printer for the Government. 95. Then you think the colony gets the benefit ?—Yes, I feel quite sure that it does. 96. Is it necessary that there should be a Government Printing Office? —I think so. I think that the Government Printing Office is a great safeguard to the Government in matters of expenditure on printing, because all printing done outside the Government Office for the Government is, I understand, checked by the Government Printer, who is able to say whether the work has been properly performed or not. He is likewise able to report as to the charge for it, whether it be moderate or otherwise. 97. Can you illustrate by any experience of your own the practical effect of the two systems— that is, printing in the Government Office, as contrasted with printing in private offices ? —ln the matter of uniformity, I consider the Government gain largely by having the work done in their own office. The printing done in the Government Office possesses uniformity. The work is classified, and one uniform style adhered to. If given to different offices the style would vary very much. There is another important matter in connection with the Government Office. Everything is very much condensed, and brought into the smallest compass possible with due regard to utility ; but in a private office the natural disposition is to make what the printers call " fat"—that is, to make everything as white and open as possible. I remember having seen some years ago a number of bills and estimates which had been printed for one of the Provincial Governments. The sight of that work astounded me. I noticed that what are termed "pica whites " had been run between the lines of the Bills. That simply meant that the work would cost the Government double the contract price,' because the matter which should honestly form but one page had been, by the introduction of blank spaces between the lines, made into two pages. That is, what the Government Printer would put into one page the private printers would make two pages of. 98. Mr. Dargaville.] Have you ever printed the electoral roll ?—Yes; frequently. I know that printers sometimes make a good deal of profit if the work is tabular. They turn over words that there is no necessity to turn over. The Chairman : I am glad the witness has given us this illustration, because it shows the difference between the cost of the Provincial Government printing—which may fairly be taken as the private-office style—and that of the Government Printing Office. Witness : The prices for printing the electoral roll vary very much. I will give you my experience : When I am asked to tender for the electoral roll I put in a price that I think will compensate me for any loss I may sustain from being unable to execute other work that I may have in hand. If we are slack in my office I would naturally put in a very much lower price than if we were busy. In small offices general work has sometimes to be laid aside so as to produce the roll within contract time. I have received as high as £110s. per page for printing the roll, and as low as 17s. 6d. I believe this last is the price fixed by the Government Printer as a paying price for the work. But there are times when it would not pay the private printer at this rate. Therefore when lam asked to tender for it lam simply guided by circumstances :if work is slack, low price; if plentiful and but a short time be given in which to produce the roll, I want a higher price. 99. The Chairman.] You have yourself worked in the Government Printing Office, have you not?—Yes, I have for about eleven years. I was in it when it was first established in Auckland. 100. Mr. J. B. Whyte.] About how long is that ago?—About twenty-one years. It is ten years since I left. 101. The Chairman.] Are you acquainted with the details of the working of the office now? — I cannot say that lam thoroughly acquainted with the details; but I passed through the office about five months ago. I also went there yesterday for a short time. 102. Mr. Samuel.] Do the same men hold the principal positions as when you were there ?— Yes ; the principal men are still there. 103. Mr. Joyce.] But there is one practical difficulty which I might suggest to you against printing the electoral roll at the Government Printing Office : it is district work ; the rolls have to be revised by the Clerks of Courts? —Yes. 104. It is absolutely necessary that they should be revised within a given time: would it not therefore be necessary for the revising officer to come to Wellington ?—Yes; or delay would be caused by having to send the proofs to him. 105. The Chairman.] Is the work done in a Government Printing Office of such a character as to require the employment of specially-skilled men ?—Yes: it requires men specially skilled to produce good results. Men accustomed to do Government work can do a larger amount of such work within a given time than men who are not accustomed to it: they know what is termed the " style" of the office; they know when they receive a piece of copy whether it is a Bill or a parliamentary paper ; they can tell at once the type in which it ought to be set, and the manner in which it should be set. Then there are men in the Government Office who are specially adapted to set tabular matter. There is a great deal of that kind of work done in the Government Office. It is the most expensive work done in connection with Government printing. If at all complicated, it is usually charged for at double rates. If it were given out to a contractor, it would cost a great deal more than it would in the Government Printing Office. Besides, the Government work runs upon certain "sorts" in printing material. It is necessary to have a sufficiency of such sorts as the Government work absorbs most of. 106. Mr. Dargaville.] You mean sorts of type?—Yes. 107. The Chairman.] Having got together a specially-skilled staff, do you not think it should be kept together as much as possible during the slack period by providing it with any stock work 2—l. 5.