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will the Native representation be increased ? If the Minister will state that the Native representation will be raised so as to make it equal in numbers to that of the Europeans in the House, then that will be all right. If the House is allowed to make the law Ts, and then circulate the Acts afterwards, that would not receive support, as they would have been made by Europeans only. The proper way to do it would be as Tawhiao has suggested—that the Acts should be made by the Native race themselves outside the House, and that they should be taken into the House for ratification. With regard to the Treaty of Waitangi, it is not the Europeans outside of New Zealand who cause the trouble within it. It is the English people alone who cause the trouble; no outside foe. The Government seized the land and the foreshore ; it was not the Americans or any other foreign race ; and the lands that were confiscated were taken by England in consequence of the war. It is not right for us to remodel or alter the Treaty of Waitangi; but it should be left in the way in which our old people made it. We must leave it at that; in the way that Lord Derby told us, we will carry out the Treaty of Waitangi. Te Ngakau : I support what Tawhiao has said, that the tribes should manage their own affairs. I want to ask a question with regard to the statement you made, that you love the Maori race. Do you mean that it is the same kind that a younger brother should bear to an elder one ? I support what Tawhiao said about Kawhia—that you should go very carefully to work there. I have got something to say about Tawhiao's agreement to give up the railway. What he means by that is, that, when the railway goes through, he is to have all the management of the land in connection with it; that you are to have no power or claim on the lands on either side of the railway, but only the railway-line itself. I may say that I support what Paora said about the increased representation for the Maoris in the House. If you really show the love for us that you say you have, you will give us that increased representation. You will also give us a Maori Commissioner, to assist the Government Commissioner here. Wherever there is a European Commissioner let there be a Native Commissioner, too. I have seen in the Native Land Court that there are sometimes three or four Judges and only one Assessor. There should be an equal number of Assessors with the European Judges. If you agree to this, then we shall say that your love to us is real. If you do not agree I shall know that your love is not real. Mr. Ballance said: I will now reply to what has been said by Te Wheoro, Paora Tuhaere, and Te Ngakau. Te Wheoro has said that the Treaty of Waitangi was given to both races, but he thought that I said it was given only to the one race. He must have misunderstood me. I did not say so. I know the Treaty of Waitangi was given to both races, and I accept it as binding on both races. Te Wheoro asked that there should be no delay in sending the reply to the petition to England. I give him my promise that there shall be no delay. He says we should all join together in the making of laws, and that the chiefs should make the laws ; but does he mean that the people themselves shall have no voice in making the laws ? In electing members to the House, every person has a vote now. Does Major Te Wheoro propose that the vote should be taken from the people at large and given only to the chiefs ? If he does, Ido not agree with him there. Te Wheoro : No ; I do not mean that. Mr. Ballance : Then, again, all the people have an interest in the land. Shall only the chiefs exercise jurisdiction over the land in future? I could not agree to that. All the people have rights to the land who can prove their claims to it. Therefore I say that all the people shall have a voice ' in the government of the country. That is the principle upon which we have acted, and the principle upon which ■we intend to act in the future. You have all a voice in" the election of your own Committees. We propose to give you great powers of self-govern-ment over these, and not to take from you any of the powers you now possess. Te Wheoro has referred to the Queen, but I cannot say that I clearly understand him there ; but I was exceedingly glad to hear his expressions upon one point which I clearly understand,, that we all acknowledge the authority of the Queen. Te Wheoro thinks, however, that the Queen should rule from England in her own person—that is, to rule by her own authority alone; but the Queen does not rule in her own person and by her own authority alone. The Constitution of England requires the Queen should rule through her Advisers —through her Ministers. She never acts upon her own responsibility, but only upon the advice of her Ministers. The Queen and Parliament rule Great Britain. The Queen —through her representative, the Governor —and the Parliament of New Zealand rule New Zealand. That is the law of England as well as the law of this colony. Now I will refer to what Paul Tuhaere has said. He has asked me a straight question : Will the Native representation in the House be increased ? I reply to him that last session, as the papers will show, I advocated in the House an increase of the Native members. He asks that they should have the same representation as the Europeans. I reply to that, that they are entitled to the same representation in proportion to numbers. Paul Tuhaere : Yes. Mr. Ballance :■ lam glad to hear that Paul Tuhaere agrees with me there. I shall be prepared to advocate that in Parliament. Paul has referred to Acts made outside by the Natives, and taken into the Parliament for ratification. I wish to make myself clear upon this point. The Parliament, which is composed of Maoris and Europeans, has the supreme voice in the making of laws, and, while we are prepared to consult the people outside with regard to these Bills, still Parliament must have the supreme voice. I have said that, as a member of the Government, I am prepared to advocate that the people shall be consulted, and that proper respect shall be paid to their wishes and their wants; but the Parliament is the supreme law-making authority. Te Ngakau has made a very excellent speech, and he has said, in regard to the railway, he is quite prepared to allow the land to be taken over which the railway is to run, but the Government are not to interfere with the land on each side. I give my promise that the Government shall not interfere with the land on each side of the railway. All that we want is simply the land over which the railway runs, and, if the people are not prepared to give that land to the Government for the construction of the railway, seeing that it will benefit the land on each side, the Government are prepared to pay for it. I hope