1.—.5

14

313. You complain that the clause you mentioned has not been enforced ; do you recommend that it should be put in force?— Yes. 314. Hon. Captain Fraser.) Do you think that if clause 26 were enforced that Marlborough would be clean ?—lndeed I think so : I think it would have been clean years ago if that clause had been enforced. 315. We have seen it somewhat otherwise in Canterbury. I have been informed by a gentleman that if the clause had been strictly carried out he would have been ruined; and he was one of the wealthiest men there ?—I can quite understand that. A good many sheepowners do not really understand their own interest in this matter. They think they escape evil consequences. Nevertheless they are ruining themselves indirectly. But it is not only themselves, but other owners that are injured. I also made a notice of the 27th clause, which refers to herding sheep and yarding them if they are scabby. 316. Hon. the Chairman.) What would you remark about that ? —lf you turn to clause 45 you will see that if any person by himself or his agent negligently suffers any scabby sheep to stray, the penalty shall be so much. The department, I find, experience some difficulty in convicting people because they were not able to prove that they had " negligently suffered" their sheep to stray. In order to get free of the difficulty, the Inspector took the precaution of giving the notice mentioned in clauses 27 and 28. In order to pin down any person they may have to prosecute so as to prevent all chance of escape, they previously give him notice to "herd and yard" his sheep, so that if any sheep are found outside the boundaries of his run, the owner must have necessarily "negligently" allowed them to stray. But I was going to mention that it was practically impossible to enforce herding and yarding in cases of large flocks, and the Inspectors, in some cases, after giving the notice, had said to the owner, "If you keep a good boundary I shall not insist upon your herding and yarding." Hopefield Station got such a notice. The boundary in this case was the Waiau Biver, and the manager proved in Court that he kept a man to prevent the sheep getting across, but in mustering one sheep was driven across the river on to Mr. McArthur's run, and for this, under the above arrangement with the Inspector, the Hopefield manager was fined £20. When I said the Inspectors had been in the habit of taking liberties with the Act, this was one of the liberties. 317. Hon. Mr. Campbell.) Exactly; and it is one of the very grossest liberties that could be taken.—With reference to clause 46, I think it is a very great mistake to allow sheep to pass through an infected run in high country. A snow-storm may come on at any time. The sheep may stray all over the place. The shepherd will not be able to look after them properly in a snowstorm. The sheep will not remain on a strange run, but will stray to the adjoining runs, making their way back to the run they came from. It is, in my opinion, an extremely dangerous thing to allow sheep to be driven through an infected run. 318. Mr. Buchanan.) The Inspector has it in his discretion, and he will take precautionary measures ?—I have known sheep driven across an infected run without proper precautions being taken. 319. I will put this case to you; sheep cannot get to Wellington without coming through the pass. They are grazing all round the foot of a run which has got infected : what would you do in such a case as that ?—You observe they must come through the pass in order to get to Wellington. If a large mob of sheep are passing through a valley with infected sheep on both sides scab may be taken off the infected run, or an infected sheep may join the mob being so driven. 320. Hon. the Chairman.) You would recommend that the 46th clause should be repealed so as to prevent any permission being given ?—So far as our district is concerned I would like to see that 46th clause excised. 321. I quite agree with you too.—Then as to clause 57, with respect to mustering notice, it does not fully meet the necessities of the case. The Act ought to be altered as regards this clause so as to prevent men who are likely to break the law from mustering sheep, putting them together, and drafting them inside or outside the yard, until at least forty-eight hours to seventy-two hours previous notice of such intention to muster and draft has been given to adjoining neighbours. 322. Mr. Buchanan.) To prevent wool sorting you mean ?—Yes. There has been a great deal of that done. Before the Inspector or neighbours come, the sheep have been drafted inside or outside the yards, and I think there ought to be a heavy penalty for an act of that sort. Twenty-four hours, I think, is too short notice. It ought to be forty-eight hours at least. It is a great inconvenience at shearing time to get notice over night and have to start a man off in the morning I should like to see the notice extended to at least forty-eight hours. The only other clause in which I have to remark is clause 62. In those cases in which the law has been abrogated, as I have stated by the Inspectors, they ignore that clause as well as the clauses I have mentioned—viz., clauses 26, 27, 28.

Monday, 15th September, 1884. Mr. G. F. Bullen, examined. 323. Hon. the Chairman.) You are a sheepowner?—Yes ; in the Kaikoura District. 324. That is an infected district?— Yes; it is an infected district. 325. And has been so for some time ?—Yes; ever since I have been there. 326. Is your run*an infected run?—l had a certificate the last four years, until three months since. It is now practically an. infected run. 327. Your neighbours are also infected?— Some of them. Mr. Gibson is a neighbour on one side ; Swyncombe is also a neighbour; Mr. Smith is also a neighbour : but lam bounded by a good many neighbours. 328. With regard to the infected flocks, do you think that all proper means have been taken to clean them ? —I do not think so. 329. Will you state in what way ?—Persons have been allowed to drive scabby sheep. You can